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Motor kick back when trying to start!!!
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DRR Pro
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Double-check the firing order. Maybe you have an altered firing order cam.


Larry Woodfin



 
Posts: 1118 | Location: Kilgore TX | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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Here’s how I’ve (and others) eliminated spark scatter for years and keeps the interior of the distributor clean and rust free.

I vent the distributor cap. Two 1/4” holes (one 180 degrees from other) between the towers 1-7/8” from the bottom of the cap.

If you look at the top of any MSD distributor cap you’ll see a small cap covering a vent hole. Not only is this vent hole too small, it’s mostly covered by the cap limiting venting.

 
Posts: 1111 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of SCDIV1
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The air in the distributer can become ionized and charged with enough energy to misfire.

The vent holes do help.

A Plasma cutter works on a similar principal, ionized air. The voltage from an ignition coil is far higher than a plasma cutter. 40,000- 50,000 vs 3000....
 
Posts: 1598 | Location: Where ever I am, I'm here and it's me | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
Picture of sammy christian
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LEAN.
Often times a result of operator afraid to give it some fuel before cranking.


6.41@221 (so far)
4.11@178
off the shelf/built it myself
 
Posts: 56 | Location: Amherst, Ny | Registered: May 14, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Matrix
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It's always been start retard anytime I've seen someone with that issue. I've always been a fan of spinning the motor then flipping the ignition.


Daryl Pinder

Dynasty Motorsports
www.dynastymotorsports.com


 
Posts: 360 | Location: Ft. Washington, MD USA | Registered: March 05, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of rusty
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quote:
LEAN.
Often times a result of operator afraid to give it some fuel before cranking

this plus all of the above


opinions are worth what you pay for them
1.036, 6.16@ 224

 
Posts: 841 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Mike Rietow
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What is it with these red analog boxes anyway? Has anyone ever owned one of these things and not had a problem? I ran a Gold box analog, never a problem. Seems like every red box has a rev limiter, start retard or polarity problem.



https://youtu.be/FZ6zwnyDwUg

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1996, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008 Super Pro Champion Sunshine Dragstrip, Clearwater Florida
 
Posts: 1162 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
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Change the three step for a two step and Mike just posted a picture of my ignition system. I say that because I fought the same problem for years. Changed and replaced everything already talked about. Some of it several times. Finally in an attempt to chase down the reason my car slowed down .5 and 6 to 8 mph in the 1/8, I sent the 7al2 box back to msd. They said box had four different problems. I haven’t been able to run car at the track yet but can say it starts easier cleaner and faster than it has in years. Only have a few starts so far but no kickbacks at all. Before hot cold it didn’t matter it was nearly impossible to start without kickbacks. Just what I have experienced on my own car. Yours may be different. Good luck.
 
Posts: 271 | Location: Going to or returning from the chipmine. | Registered: July 01, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Brktracer
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I drove a friend's car recently and it would start like the timing was set on about 60 degrees. It didn't kick back (probably didn't have a "good" starter) but it did act like the timing was way too advanced or the battery was very low. He said pump the gas a couple times first. I did that and it would start up just fine. So that's what I did every time and it worked just fine. Weird and no explanation. Sammy's lean comment reminded me of that.


Matt Ward



 
Posts: 1232 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: March 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Thanks everybody for the replies.
Yes it is a crank trigger.
I did check the fazzing of the distributor, and timing. It was rock solid at 36 degrees.
(once it got started)
I have heard of the issue with the 7AL3 Red boxes. I do have a 7AL2 spare for my other car. I think I will try changing it this weekend to see how things go. Also I did change the Coil wire when I put the new plugs & plug wires on late last year.
Thanks again
Cal SST/SG 1177
Just a 1st rd Duck looking for a win!!!
 
Posts: 28 | Location: Southern MD | Registered: November 21, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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quote:
Originally posted by sammy christian:
LEAN.
Often times a result of operator afraid to give it some fuel before cranking.


I always thought it was to much fuel, when it caught on fire.
I generly hit it at least 2 times before spinning it over to start it up.
Thanks again for replying.
Cal SST/SG 1177
Just a 1st rd Duck looking for a win!!!
 
Posts: 28 | Location: Southern MD | Registered: November 21, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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Too much fuel just sets the plugs and it won’t fire not enough it hick ups and spits fire out the top.
I had all kinds of issues before I found my box was bad, tried every trick in the book. Once box was fixed I just give it two squirts of gas and hit ignition, don’t even get it spinning first and it fires right up.
 
Posts: 2346 | Location: at the track | Registered: May 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
Picture of Bubbletop409
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quote:
Originally posted by Cal of MD:
Thanks everybody for the replies.
Yes it is a crank trigger.
I did check the fazzing of the distributor, and timing. It was rock solid at 36 degrees.
(once it got started)


I had a similar issues, checked my phasing at full (38), right on. Due to space restrictions I had to run a small diameter distributor. After being momentarily dumbfounded I realized that when in start mode my timing was 18 and the rotor was past the correct terminal and firing the next cylinder in order. Re phased my distributor and ended the issue. Disregard this if your timing is locked at full advance.


Larry
62 Bel-Air 409
79 Cole TR-2 SunsetRaceCraft 565 RIP TRACY
260 Eliminator Eagle XP HP500EFI
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WELL DONE USN SEAL TEAM 6
Proud Deplorable
 
Posts: 44 | Location: Castro Valley, CA State of Insanity | Registered: August 22, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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Timing and rotor phasing.

Many think they know how to check rotor phasing but ultimately may be doing it wrong.

https://youtu.be/aWMlNwGW0tM

I have used a 6AL, 7531 and Grid boxes and never had any kick back when the timing was right as well as rotor phasing. I've always used a 10 degree start retard as well, still do along with a standard 168 tooth flexplate. Can't remember the last time I've chipped or broken a tooth...knock on wood.

Also, ALWAYS use the large Ford style distributor cap.

I have two large Ford caps. One with a large hole to check phasing then when I'm done I switch back to my racing cap.
 
Posts: 787 | Location: Westminster, MD | Registered: December 23, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
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Here’s the method I use to check / set the rotor phasing at any given time with my standard cap.

I draw a vertical line with marker from the #1 cap terminal tower to the distributor base to mark location of the tower on distributor. Remove cap. Then I rotate the engine to the desired full advance, for me 36*. Then I line up the mark on the base of the distributor, with the rotor tang. Re-install cap.

At the top of Page 2 of this thread I show a picture of my distributor with a 1/4" vent hole. This hole lines up horizontally with the rotor diameter face.

Knowing that the rotor is now phased to the #1 tower while at 36* BTDC, I place a mark on the side of the rotor face through the 1/4” cap hole.

To check rotor phasing I just point the timing light at the 1/4" vent hole in the side of the cap to see the mark that I placed on the rotor.

Because I have Grid, I can set a retard of any value for any rpm and confirm where the rotor has moved to during this period. One could make multiple marks on the rotor face for different degree setting if desired.

This method has always worked for me. No donor cap and easily checked at any time.
 
Posts: 1111 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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I don’t have a choice but the small distributor cap due to running tunnelram. My distributor is locked out and running crank trigger though.
 
Posts: 2346 | Location: at the track | Registered: May 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
Picture of 1320racer
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MSD Billet distributor with the black bushing/18 degrees mechanical advance solved my kickback issue and broken flex plates 13 years ago


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Posts: 6007 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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Ed, just curious, what springs do you use with that bushing? I tried that on mine with the lightest springs and timing would not return to same place at idle giving me an erratic idle. Idle would vary about two hundred rpm when set at 1100.
 
Posts: 271 | Location: Going to or returning from the chipmine. | Registered: July 01, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
Picture of 1320racer
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I'd have to check to be sure but I think 1 lightest and 1 blue



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Support our President! Support our Troops! Support our economy! Buy American!!

"if you guys are so broke dyck you can't buy USA made parts you need to stay the fuc at home that's the bottomline" ----Tim McAmis






 
Posts: 6007 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Mechanical advance with the lightest springs possible and biggest bushing. I stretched the springs a little beyond where their elastic limit to try and get all the mechanical advance back in at lowest possible RPM. Did this on a iron headed 598, solved the kick back problems. I believe Mopar performance also offers some very light weight springs that can be used the in the msd distributors also.

FYI problem with start retards in the MSD box is they have to get a few (3-5 I've been told) signals from the pick up at full timing to have a reference point to retard from. Its the first few triggers that usually cause the kick back. Timing retard in the box never fixed any kick back issues i had, oftentimes made them worse i believe due to the rotor phasing problem already mentioned.
 
Posts: 203 | Location: Pride, La | Registered: April 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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