My 421 alcohol motor spins over great with no effort. However, as soon as I turn the ignition on to start it the first time, it wants to kick back, and after that it is fine. Anyone else ever have this issue and how did you solve it?
just a little lean at first start ,give it one more pump
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Do you have block heaters installed? Your motor will start like a street car with heat available to vaporize the fuel. If you don't want heaters? give it 20-30 seconds before spinning it after you stroke the throttle for the pump shot. Ambient methanol vaporizes very slowly.
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had same problem and it cost me some parts. Bellhousing, couple flexplates, couple starters, etc. 438" SBF about 15:1.
Have to basically flood it on first start, wait a bit for the alcohol to evaporate a little, hit starter and fire it off. In my case, the locked out ignition + slightly lean mix on a cold engine = nasty kickback. Fixed with a set of springs in the distributor and threw away the start/retard garbage.
Then once I got used to it, decided to "try" a primer plus-and it's still on it to this day. It's not a perfect setup but it works VERY well to start a cold engine. There was at one time a "primer" (without the "plus") which worked pretty good too. Dunno if they still offer that. Both also work with a carburetor; and we've run one (primer plus) on a 4150 alky carb on a 294" SBF. It's just a little funky to get used to initially.
The best thing in the world for running alcohol is the Primer Plus system. Lets you squirt gas into the motor from the ****pit before cranking. It will also let you run the motor on gas in order to build heat. It is a big time starter and flex plate saver.
If you do not want to purchase the primer plus system then the next best alternative to starting the motor is to get a squirt bottle with gas and squirt into the top of the carb from the scoop access. Let it sit for 30-60 seconds. Then turn over for 20 seconds and fire it up. If it does not crank up then repeat process.
|DRR Top Comp|
I made a primer system that helps but it is still touchy sometimes. I experimented with the primer many different ways with gas, E-85 and alcohol. It seems to work best with alcohol.
Now with a carb just pump it a few times hit it and go but with injection it is not as easy.
Best investment you can make is the 139 tooth flexplate and starter deal. No more broken flexplates.
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Get primer plus. Works great..
Love it for unloading car and starting at track and getting heat in it.
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We still use the squirt bottle with gas but then started filling empty bowls on carb with gas when we get home. at next race, cranks up on gas from carb, then bowls fill up with alcohol. by then its running . Putting gas in bowls also gets rid of "white death" from storing alcohol in carb bowls..
For cold start up with our alcohol motors we pump it twice, wait 5 seconds and turn motor for 2 or 3 seconds so alcohol gets down the motor some and hit ignition switch. Now also have block heaters on motors for cooler weather racing to avoid repeated cold starts.
12V or 16V? Seen plenty of 12V kick back...seems pretty rare on 16V unless another underlying issue is present.
Have never done anything to alc carbs after a race and start monthly if not racing weekly or bi weekly.
|DRR Top Comp|
with cracked starter housing that allows bolt to loosen a 16v 139 tooth set you can break both flywheel and starter, Well and well trained destructure can. LMAO
Too much alky shot into system when cold will kick back.If cold out mix gas and alky i bottle and give small shot.As stated give it cpl seconds,spin motor and then hit ignition.
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Similar to Torqin's method. Depending on air temperature, I give 2-3 hits, then spin the engine to draw the fuel in, give it a few seconds then one more hit, spin and fire it.
|DRR All Star|
I haven't had lean pop issues at start for years, and now I am. Swapped to EFI/belt drive this year. Methanol.
It's fine stone cold. Just takes a few moments of cranking to get the fuel pumping. But for the rest of the day.....man I haven't found the sweet spot yet. I'm almost tempted to just stick the primer that I used with mfi back on. I have tried pulling timing during cranking and ramping timing it....which help. I think I have all the primer pulse in it that is available. And I don't know how effective that is with the belt drive. Sometimes if I open the blades while cranking, it won't do it. That was always a no-no with my mfi setup before the primer...as it would pop every time then.
Weird thing about pulling timing for me is if it doesn't pop, it's really hard to tell when it is running quickly enough to let off the button. I end up running the starter too long, after it is already running.
Now when I used the primer and on the carb, I would just squirt it and spin it. On the mfi, I would hit the primer, lay on the button, and let the engine run for a moment on the primer before letting off the primer button.
Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
Leave the throttle completely closed while trying to fire it, until it starts to fire up.
Unless it's cold overnight, below 50, do this, its the easiest!!!
Pump it 2 to 3 times, turn the motor over for a few seconds, stop, pump it again 2 times, then start. It's backfiring because it lean.
Whenever it get cold overnight, you usually need a squirt of gas on the first startup.
When I ran an APD alcohol 1050 ...
I just squirted some gas down in the carb first start of the day and was good after that.
One time I managed to get a fire going inside my dragster scoop and had to scramble to get the fire out before something bad happened...
After that I always removed the scoop and made sure the gas went down past the throttle blades. I also always kept a wet rag handy just in case
With Injection I had a gas primer on one car and a primer plus on another. Starting was easy in any weather....
pump it two or three times. With the ignition OFF spin it over a good amount. With the motor spinning turn on the ignition and warm it up. Never fails.
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I have seen way too many people get the hairs burned off of their face and head from giving the engine a "drink". I quit the practice. Primer plus will solve the issue once and for all. I didn't believe in them until I tried one-and trust me, I don't "advertise" stuff unless I know it works-and I KNOW that the primer plus works-and works VERY well.
Seriously. If you're locked out, it's not needed. If you have a start/retard box, it too is not needed. Set the mech advance in the dist to be "all in" by 800-1000 RPM, idle speed at 1200, it will be fine and starts like a street car on any fuel you throw at it within reason. Getting the dist set up on a SBF was easy. They mistakendly sent me a set of HEI springs-which are considerably "lighter" than the Ford re-curve "kit"- and I used the lightest ones in the box. But on the other car (which still uses a duraspark II distributor), I went to the hardware store and picked up the lightest extension springs I could find, cut them down, bent the ends, and they too work just fine. Full advance by 750rpm and it honestly starts just like a street car with a carburetor. Still not EFI easy--but I've got friends who run turbocharged grudge stuff with EFI (gas, e85 and methanol all in different cars)-and some of them don't start as good as both of mine do.
I had a start retard and locked out timing for a while. Give it a nice squirt, turn the engine, wait a second, then turn it over again and hit the switch while cranking. Sometimes it would kick back even doing it that way. Couple times it would hurt parts, usually the starter but the one time it actually cracked the bellhousing, and another time it destroyed the flexplate. Parts got expensive and changing them at the track got to be a pain in the backside. I forget who it was who suggested to use the mechanical advance-but I'm in debt to them. It flat works.
I've been doing it the way Top38 said for a few years: 2 pumps, crank it a few seconds, 2 more pumps then it fires up. Works down to around 50* for me. But the past couple years, I started a routine of pulling my air cleaner off, hitting all the air bleeds with a quick shot of carb cleaner, then put the filter back on and that stuff acts just like starting fluid, fires right up. Having the filter assy on it when I start it up minimizes any chance of flameups, and the short time it takes to do this routine is worth the added benefit of clean bleed passages. Top lube does seem to gum them up, and it seems to start easier, and run more crisply since I began doing it this way. And when it is cold, it starts at least as easy as using a squirt of gas, probably better, since it is an aerosol mist to begin with and highly volatile.
Dan "Jim" Moore
Much too young to feel this damn old!!
I need to start pulling mine too. I hate it when mine pops and catches on fire. Too hard to get the hood off then air filter once it does. Been a few times I sat there cranking it (seemed like forever) until the fire went out.
"Nah, just trying to put the fire out."
72 Nova "Hooptie"
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