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DRR Sportsman
Picture of Richard Hammond
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ferndaleflyer:
Fastman sees it....A foot brake race where a car has 7, thats right 7, buttons on the steering wheel and in disscribing what they do says one is for bump up and one for bump down----hows that work with a foot brake car? I saw this a couple of years back and asked. In the case of a foot brake race they used to say NO buttons on the steering wheel but now it dosen't seem to matter. Get them out and if you have a pro brake (in foot brake?) put a switch on the dash, same for your line lock.


Who was the racer? And what race was it?
 
Posts: 212 | Location: miami | Registered: September 07, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Mike Beck
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Hammond:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Beck:
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Hammond:
quote:
Originally posted by The Pirate:
What races are Davis boxes illegal?


Pretty much all of them. It's a traction control box.


I thought it was a counter. Helped you determine track position.

I still think a device that can see the tree and let go of the trans brake for you would be much more helpful than being able to run dead-on.

What good is it to be able to and run on your number if you can't hit the tree? Certainly helps you make a decision at big end, or medium end since most of these races seem to be half track.........



No Davis makes traction controls and bump boxes.


Yes, you are correct, I was thinking of the Matty Box.
 
Posts: 1444 | Location: South River, NJ | Registered: June 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Lenny5160
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Hammond:
quote:
Originally posted by ferndaleflyer:
Fastman sees it....A foot brake race where a car has 7, thats right 7, buttons on the steering wheel and in disscribing what they do says one is for bump up and one for bump down----hows that work with a foot brake car? I saw this a couple of years back and asked. In the case of a foot brake race they used to say NO buttons on the steering wheel but now it dosen't seem to matter. Get them out and if you have a pro brake (in foot brake?) put a switch on the dash, same for your line lock.


Who was the racer? And what race was it?


Does it matter? I'm going to assume that the racer was accurately describing what those buttons do, WHEN A BOX IS IN THE CAR. If the race flyer did not explicitly prohibit buttons on the steering wheel, there's no problem as long as the box is out.

If the flyer did explicitly prohibit buttons on the steering wheel, that falls on the promoter although they may need help getting these things brought to their attention.


Tony Leonard
 
Posts: 2449 | Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN | Registered: March 18, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR All Star
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quote:
Does it matter?


Well, maybe. Or at least the track.
Look, I am the first to discourage endless bytching online that really hurts tracks. There is no right answer for tracks in that case, and it seldom improves anything.

However....

If some tracks have a problem that they are not addressing regarding cheating, and addressing it with the track has not helped, then maybe social media is the place to air it. I'm not in favor of making claims against racers without evidence we can see right here. But it's a free country!


If everything is racist, nothing is racist.
 
Posts: 3214 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Lenny5160
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bucky:
quote:
Does it matter?


Well, maybe. Or at least the track.
Look, I am the first to discourage endless bytching online that really hurts tracks. There is no right answer for tracks in that case, and it seldom improves anything.

However....

If some tracks have a problem that they are not addressing regarding cheating, and addressing it with the track has not helped, then maybe social media is the place to air it. I'm not in favor of making claims against racers without evidence we can see right here. But it's a free country!


There is nothing in Fern's post that sounds like cheating. Without more incriminating information, it would just be dragging a racer and/or event into the mud needlessly.


Tony Leonard
 
Posts: 2449 | Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN | Registered: March 18, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have a close friend who races a dirt modified. Apparently, there is a lot of cheating that goes on in that arena. He said that when he first started, he had asked some of the other racers about some of the rules and was told that "if they don't check for it, it's not a rule." When you really think about that statement, there is a lot of truth in it . . .
 
Posts: 15 | Location: Union, KY | Registered: April 24, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Hammond:
quote:
Originally posted by fastman-99:
the lack of tech, and random inspections seems to be a bigger issue to me. sure people are cheating. it shouldnt be a shocker to anyone. But when I am sitting in the lanes of a foot brake, or no box race and the car next to me has a delay box mounted on the dash I would think thats pretty obvious.


Then go ahead and protest them. Take a picture and post the names of the cheaters.

Your missing the point. When a flyer says no boxes in or on vehicle, and its mounted clear as day in the car, thats a problem. The fact is overall, with these big races there is no way they can efficiently tech these cars. But when people blatantly violate the rules and no one does anything, it says alot about what the track and or promoter are willing to allow happen. 99% of the people putting on the races dont care who wins or how they won. They just want to complete the race and collect the profits. Its a business, not an ethical examination. And trust me there are plenty of people willing to exploit that!
 
Posts: 34 | Location: oregon | Registered: December 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
Picture of Stephen Hughes
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quote:
Originally posted by HOLLOMAN:
This is an interesting thread! I think we are past the days of one particular car standing out from the rest due to having "traction control." I have driven several cars that I don't think would be any better if they were equipped with the arc module tied into the grid, or if they had the profiler with the "add back" feature.

"Cheating" doesn't necessarily have to be illegal devices on the racecar. "Accidental misinterpretation" of the grey areas by racers can give themselves an advantage. ALL PROMOTERS should write the rules out in English. Make the grey areas BLACK AND WHITE.

How many times can a car go down the track in a single round of competition, INCLUDING RE-ENTRY. (No exceptions!) (Example - If I double my car and lose both entries 1st round and re-entry, can a buddy buy an entry, pay re-entry, and take it back up? Is that car eliminated and available, or has it been down twice that round so it's done?)

At what point are tech cards no longer sold? Is it 1st pair of the round in burnout, or is it until the round is completed? (This solves the above issue!)

What EXACTLY is a NEW ENTRY when it comes to time runs? Is it "car NOR driver have been down the track at all?" Is it new driver IN this car that has been down? Is it a new car to a driver that has been down? MAKE THIS RULE BLACK AND WHITE!

I personally DO NOT care what the rules are. As long as they are written out on the flyer, PRIOR to the gates open, and are the same for everyone there (Regardless of your name, if you are a title sponsor, buddy's cousin's best man)!

Timing system woes --- I think there are WAY MORE issues in the US than most can fathom! Reality is you can own a track, and run a "local" show for $1,200 on Sat night for 6 months and never know you have an issue. Let a big money show roll into town! Ever go to a big money race and the first time run of the week the lanes are 50/50 right/left. Then by 3rd or 4th round, 90% line up in the left, and only 10% want the right?


Dead on with a zero on the issue of cars going down the track more than twice. I’ve also been to races where “new entry” time runs took 2 hours to run even though there were only 30 new entries that day. I think if that car has gone down the track it doesnt qualify as new entry. This just caters to the guys with multiple cars at these no time run races as they just switch cars with their brother/dad/cousin/teammate etc and now have an advantage on the others. I personally know of one that has triple entered races this year and won the race on that third entry that he shouldn’t of even had. The problem I saw with it was the promoter caught it and let it go. They need to make an example out of a few of these people and then it might actually stop.
If we could ever get back to a 1 car, 1 driver, 1 entry format and get rid of all the gimmicks in these events, then we might actually have a level playing field.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Stephen Hughes,


The Pull-Out....for when you want to work smarter, not harder!!!
 
Posts: 256 | Location: Texas | Registered: September 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of head gamez
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Putting the rules on the flyer may not even matter...

Remember the Million when certain boxes were listed on the flyer as illegal to use? Remember they even employed someone to check boxes? Remember that they let people use those boxes anyway? They did nothing but waste ink and paper on that one....




Mikey Walters
Winston-Salem NC
 
Posts: 1551 | Location: In a Marriott near you! | Registered: February 10, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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for those interested in the Matty Box.... enjoy

"The closest known prior art to the present invention includes various devices which measure and store data during a race for review after the race, but which do not assist a driver during a race as does my drag race analyzer."

https://patents.google.com/patent/US5051935A/en
 
Posts: 1 | Location: MA | Registered: October 29, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Dead on with a zero on the issue of cars going down the track more than once. I’ve also been to races where “new entry” time runs took 2 hours to run even though there were only 30 new entries that day. I think if that car has gone down the track it doesnt qualify as new entry. This just caters to the guys with multiple cars at these no time run races as they just switch cars with their brother/dad/cousin/teammate etc and now have an advantage on the others. I personally know of one that has triple entered races this year and won the race on that third entry that he shouldn’t of even had. The problem I saw with it was the promoter caught it and let it go. They need to make an example out of a few of these people and then it might actually stop. If we could ever get back to a 1 car, 1 driver, 1 entry format and get rid of all the gimmicks in these events, then we might actually have a level playing field.


I couldn't agree more. all of the above is why I don't go to many of these races. It is out of hand and I know its going to happen before I even get there and that really makes the race a lot less fun for me.
 
Posts: 79 | Location: inside | Registered: January 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Richard Hammond
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fastman-99:
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Hammond:
quote:
Originally posted by fastman-99:
the lack of tech, and random inspections seems to be a bigger issue to me. sure people are cheating. it shouldnt be a shocker to anyone. But when I am sitting in the lanes of a foot brake, or no box race and the car next to me has a delay box mounted on the dash I would think thats pretty obvious.


Then go ahead and protest them. Take a picture and post the names of the cheaters.

Your missing the point. When a flyer says no boxes in or on vehicle, and its mounted clear as day in the car, thats a problem. The fact is overall, with these big races there is no way they can efficiently tech these cars. But when people blatantly violate the rules and no one does anything, it says alot about what the track and or promoter are willing to allow happen. 99% of the people putting on the races dont care who wins or how they won. They just want to complete the race and collect the profits. Its a business, not an ethical examination. And trust me there are plenty of people willing to exploit that!


I understand completely what you are saying. You are making a bold statement that isn’t true about promoters for one. And if you see someone cheating and don’t say a word then you are part of the problem. Why can’t you say something when you see it happening? Everyone is quick to throw out the dirty dozen which happened 20 years ago but won’t say who they think is cheating last week. From what I’ve heard there has been more tech than people here are willing to admit to.
 
Posts: 212 | Location: miami | Registered: September 07, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Richard Hammond
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by head gamez:
Putting the rules on the flyer may not even matter...

Remember the Million when certain boxes were listed on the flyer as illegal to use? Remember they even employed someone to check boxes? Remember that they let people use those boxes anyway? They did nothing but waste ink and paper on that one....


There were a handful of cars in that race that had those boxes in question. And they were teched after every round and found to be legal every time.
 
Posts: 212 | Location: miami | Registered: September 07, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of head gamez
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Hammond:
quote:
Originally posted by head gamez:
Putting the rules on the flyer may not even matter...

Remember the Million when certain boxes were listed on the flyer as illegal to use? Remember they even employed someone to check boxes? Remember that they let people use those boxes anyway? They did nothing but waste ink and paper on that one....


There were a handful of cars in that race that had those boxes in question. And they were teched after every round and found to be legal every time.


And...? It was a clear violation of the rules as printed on the flyer. If promoters can’t get the simple things right then it is reasonable for people to question other areas of the event.

For the record. I don’t really care. I sold my stuff and spend the weekends at the beach.




Mikey Walters
Winston-Salem NC
 
Posts: 1551 | Location: In a Marriott near you! | Registered: February 10, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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What I mentioned above is true because I saw it and I asked the question and he did not hesitate to tell me what each button was for.....It was a while back and I was not a participant so no reason to throw the man under the bus. I go to race, not to tech cars, tell the promoter how to run his race, point fingers, just race. If I pay to go in the gate I accept whatever happens in there-period. I have had my car checked after it ran dead on 5 times in a row, I didn't even have a line lock. I had the lining pulled out of my helmet at Maple Grove years ago as another car passed tech in the other lane missing 1 lug bolt on the rear. But you start letting the "are they cheating" thing get in your head you have already lost. By the way Conley, Ron Erks, Matty, John Highway, and the rest of that bunch stole a ton of honest racers money back then and got away with it because they just started racing at NHRA tracks where they weren't banned.
 
Posts: 4554 | Location: everywhere | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Hammond:
quote:
Originally posted by fastman-99:
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Hammond:
quote:
Originally posted by fastman-99:
the lack of tech, and random inspections seems to be a bigger issue to me. sure people are cheating. it shouldnt be a shocker to anyone. But when I am sitting in the lanes of a foot brake, or no box race and the car next to me has a delay box mounted on the dash I would think thats pretty obvious.


Then go ahead and protest them. Take a picture and post the names of the cheaters.

Your missing the point. When a flyer says no boxes in or on vehicle, and its mounted clear as day in the car, thats a problem. The fact is overall, with these big races there is no way they can efficiently tech these cars. But when people blatantly violate the rules and no one does anything, it says alot about what the track and or promoter are willing to allow happen. 99% of the people putting on the races dont care who wins or how they won. They just want to complete the race and collect the profits. Its a business, not an ethical examination. And trust me there are plenty of people willing to exploit that!


I understand completely what you are saying. You are making a bold statement that isn’t true about promoters for one. And if you see someone cheating and don’t say a word then you are part of the problem. Why can’t you say something when you see it happening? Everyone is quick to throw out the dirty dozen which happened 20 years ago but won’t say who they think is cheating last week. From what I’ve heard there has been more tech than people here are willing to admit to.

It may be a bold statement, but its true. Promoters and or track owners, dont care who wins or how. they want the event completed, and money in there pocket. I have seen it time and time again, where promises are made to crack down on this or that, it never happens. They flat out dont care, they dont have the time, and there not going to spend the resources to police it because it doesnt effect them. And to say I am part of the problem is laughable, say something, really, why??? You think there gonna act on it, you think i am the only guy who walked past the car and saw the box or whatever. come on man, your head is in the sand. And i never said a word about the dirty dozen, it was before my time and i could care less. The cheating going on now is far more advanced than that anyways. .
 
Posts: 34 | Location: oregon | Registered: December 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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dragkid1990 quote(I know my dad had (he still has it actually) a delay box checker (some of y'all on here may not have a clue what that is) in his car years ago when we ran Super Street and the tech people freaked out when they saw it and said to take it out of course he did and for those that do know what that is know its only operation.)

Well not exactly the "only" purpose for a delay box tester.
 
Posts: 19 | Location: TEXAS...waiting to secede! | Registered: December 25, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
And to say I am part of the problem is laughable, say something, really, why???


Maybe you were. It's everybody's responsibility. Let's not take the mentality that "nobody will do nuttn about it anyway". I'm not into just taking my beatings whether I deserve them or not.


If everything is racist, nothing is racist.
 
Posts: 3214 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by cartman:
quote:
So what about SOME of the promoters putting let’s just throw a number out there... 100 drivers in his on race....I know it’s not cheating but what about actually LEGAL if you could prove it....POPCORN TIME....WHOMP OUT...


This and also allowing people to buy more entries after they lose 1st round and lose the re-entry round.


Wait. What? I thought the prevailing attitude was that it didn't matter how many times the other guys got put back in, you have to beat everybody who lines up next to you anyhow? And if they already lost a couple of times, they probably weren't any good anyhow? Has this attitude changed? Have I ever mentioned I'd like to see NO b*ybacks? Wink Take care. Tom Worthington


If it seems that bracket racing has gotten too expensive for you, maybe you are just doing it wrong.
 
Posts: 586 | Location: Rocky Mount, NC | Registered: December 01, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR All Star
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tom396:
quote:
Originally posted by cartman:
quote:
So what about SOME of the promoters putting let’s just throw a number out there... 100 drivers in his on race....I know it’s not cheating but what about actually LEGAL if you could prove it....POPCORN TIME....WHOMP OUT...


This and also allowing people to buy more entries after they lose 1st round and lose the re-entry round.


Wait. What? I thought the prevailing attitude was that it didn't matter how many times the other guys got put back in, you have to beat everybody who lines up next to you anyhow? And if they already lost a couple of times, they probably weren't any good anyhow? Has this attitude changed? Have I ever mentioned I'd like to see NO b*ybacks? Wink Take care. Tom Worthington


It's all good as long as we are all playing by and are aware of the same rules.


If everything is racist, nothing is racist.
 
Posts: 3214 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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