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Bracket Talk Bracket Talk Forum Tech Talk - by Abruzzi Foot braking and counting the tree Q:Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Foot braking and counting the tree Q: | Login/Join |
DRR Trophy |
I realize the common practice in launching is to leave with the bottom amber bulb on the tree, and my racing buddies simply recommend that. But if I wait for the bottom bulb to flash, I'll get at best about a .15 or so reaction time. For years I've had to time or 'count' the tree so that so I leave as the bottom bulb is lighting up, rather than after. I can get around a .05 to .08 light if I stay in practice, but it's exasperating to not have a definite reference point to launch by. Anyone else have that problem? I have searched the archives on this forum. My racer is just 'slow-leaving', I guess. I have four-wheel disc brakes and a fairly low-stall converter, and the brakes can hold at best about 2,500 rpm at the starting line. The tree at my usual track is set up to allow deep-staging, but that seems a sort of hassle and no one seems to do that. Rolling deep into the beams would be a lot of guesswork too. Thank you, Troy | ||
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DRR S/Pro |
First flash of the bottom yellow is simplest. Counting can be done but doesn't work well everywhere. Some tracks change the timing between yellow bulbs to stop anyone from using a box so counting won't work as well. If it's slow leaving deep staging or making it break the beams quicker is best. | |||
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| DRR Trophy |
Going deep is your best bet. It's only a hassle if you make it a hassle. Roll up and turn both bulbs on, wait for your opponent to light his pre-stage then bump it in until the top goes out. Make sure DEEP is written on BOTH side windows and the front window with your dial in. | |||
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DRR Pro |
Yup, deep is the way to go. If your track "holds" deep that's great, if not, its a little tougher ............ Here in NJ, our home track doesn't hold deep, so the entire put on two bulbs and wait usually doesn't work out well  | |||
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DRR Sportsman |
Agree with this, but only write Deep on the car if your track is honoring it. Otherwise, you're looking for headaches. If your track is not honoring Deep Staging but does allow it, practice rolling from Pre to Deep Staged in one smooth, continuous motion. Eddie Tice "I've over-educated myself in all the things I shouldn't have known at all" | |||
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DRR Pro |
This! ^^^^ My car will go 9.6x full open yet won't be better than .050 on the tree (pure footbrake, no 2-step or TB allowed). I get the rpm set, then let the car roll into the beams and stop the moment the top bulb goes out. Takes practice, but so does everything if you want to be good at it. Another way to make that process easier is a throttle control so you can do this all at a lower rpm then whack the controller to set your launch rpm. Typically the big $ races will Honor Deep and let you get in with no issues. But typical local tracks won't Honor, some won't even allow it. For those tracks I wouldn't even bother to go. | |||
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| DRR Pro |
Counting bulbs?! You can't do that! You can't, you can't, you can't!  Take care. Tom WorthingtonIf it seems that bracket racing has gotten too expensive for you, maybe you are just doing it wrong. | |||
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DRR Sportsman |
Bad Nusz, don't feel alone, that (counting the tree) is how I have been footbraking my heavy car for decades. Most of the tracks in Div IV & V do not honor Deep staging. I haven't seen a track yet that has the new timing system EMAN mentioned, with variable time splits between yellows. That would mess me up for sure! (And cause me to stop visiting that track!). I would suggest you do everything you can to make your car leave more quickly. Even if it doesn't get you to where you can leave at the flash of the 3rd amber, it will get you to a smaller "time window" to compensate for, which will help the grouping of your lights. The only way my car will hit a 30 or better off the bottom flash, is with the trans brake. But you can keep practicing the count, and continue to improve. There are some guys on here that school people on the techniques and car adjustments, they can probably give you some great advice. Hopefully they will jump in here. Dan "Jim" Moore Much too young to feel this damn old!! | |||
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DRR Top Comp |
Counting the tree never worked for me and I agree that I would not want to Deepstage unless I had no choice. If you are forced to bump in just one bump would make a difference. My car runs 5.00 and can go red with transbrake on .400 (.370?) Pro Tree so transbrake is out on full tree. If you can use a transbrake in no box there then that will pick up reaction times and you can use Just in time style button to slow it down some if needed. A few things, pump tire pressure up, a brake pressure guage may help to, The lower pressure you can stage at the quicker they release. Higher RPM will help your reaction times. While I do not recommend counting the tree if you did you may try one of those musical metronome and set it at same speed as the lights and then practice, practice, practice. https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/ "Dunning-Kruger Effect" -a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge. Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue. 4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion | |||
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| DRR S/Pro |
It can't be anything modern or new, the track near me that has and uses it has antiquated junk for a timing system. I'd say most have it just don't use it. | |||
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DRR Pro |
Deep will improve about .10. Make sure to bump in at idle and then bring up rpm. It might get you the extra .03. Set your idle on the high side to make staging easier. Otherwise, you'll need to do some tuning to make your truck react faster. Matt Ward | |||
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| DRR Trophy |
Lots of thoughtful responses, guys; thank you all. Curly1, I think I have in fact dabbled with that electronic metronome like you suggested. There are free versions online, as I recall. One can set the ticks to be at intervals of one-half second. FootbrakeJim, I think I know what you mean by reducing that 'time window'. By putting on smaller front tires, I've gotten a little closer to leaving after the flash of the bottom bulb. It only reduces my reaction time 'on paper', one might say. I in fact prefer as much 'roll out' on my front tires as I can get. ;^) At my usual track, I was told that 'deep staging' is always enabled in the computer, so rolling in until the pre-stage light goes dark will not prompt a foul-start. Indeed, the seven-second timer for getting staged is not activated until three stage and pre-stage lights are lit. Have a great weekend, all. | |||
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Bracket Talk Bracket Talk Forum Tech Talk - by Abruzzi Foot braking and counting the tree Q:
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