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Question on Powerglide building heat-quickly?
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DRR Pro
posted
I have built a couple dozen powerglides and never seen heating issues.
I bought this S10, never touched the trans, although it did have a Jones trans cooler on it. I removed it because it had a mess of hoses and my other S10 rarely gets trans to 180 even when doubled.
Changed engines, sent converter to Coan for freshening. Here is what our first couple hours at track produced:
Warmed up engine like normal, drove it down the return road, got engine to 160 and the trans was 170. Thought the sensor was off and the pan showed 120 with infra red but the case by the outlet fittings was 160. Drove it around a few more time, put it on the chip (3400) a few times, mainly just drove it around as it's all new to us.
Now trans is 225 and pan shoots 150 and case is 200+.
It is a Reid case (I have Know idea what's in it) but prior owner had raced it quite a bit and no issues he tells me. It has a good Derale cooler. Any ideas? I have never seen one heat like that just driving around and maybe going 40 to 50 mph max??
Thanks ahead of time.


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Posts: 1225 | Location: Janesville, IA | Registered: December 21, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Wild Wild West 2
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What kind of front pump does the transmission have ? If a new pump was recently installed, I would look there. I had a brand new pump installed in my trans when I had it freshened (new design pump at that time) and it caused the trans to build heat VERY quickly and upwards of 250 *F (fluid temp in the pan) just by running the engine in the shop. I contacted the company that made the pump and they sent me another new pump. We swapped out the pump and had the same issues.

I pulled the transmission back out and put the original pump back in and that fixed my fluid temp problem.


Tim West
"Wild Wild West" Racing

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Posts: 315 | Location: Spartanburg,SC | Registered: April 16, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
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quote:
Originally posted by Wild Wild West 2:
What kind of front pump does the transmission have ? If a new pump was recently installed, I would look there. I had a brand new pump installed in my trans when I had it freshened (new design pump at that time) and it caused the trans to build heat VERY quickly and upwards of 250 *F (fluid temp in the pan) just by running the engine in the shop. I contacted the company that made the pump and they sent me another new pump. We swapped out the pump and had the same issues.

I pulled the transmission back out and put the original pump back in and that fixed my fluid temp problem.


That is very strange, I would think if pump was not pumping enough to keep transmission cool then it certainly would not be pumping enough fluid to make transbrake and transmission work properly?


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"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
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Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

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Posts: 4125 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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I'm by no means a transmission person, but I'm wondering if something is wrong or has happened to the stator support tube. Depending on the converter some need a bushing and some don't. Also if the stator support tube has turned in the pump I believe would cause problems. Kevin
 
Posts: 201 | Location: Corunna, Ontario, Canada | Registered: September 30, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
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I am not a transmission expert either but I do know that many who had problems with transmission getting too hot were those who run Ringless input shafts. The Ringless input shafts are supposed to be stronger but I think it has something to do with not putting enough fluid through the convertor to cool it.

Since original poster said he did not change anything in transmission except have convertor freshened I dismissed that as a problem.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4125 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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Thanks for the replies so far. It is a strange one.
I was thinking maybe the insput shaft was ringless and it has the wrong pump as well. I can't reach prior owner who raced it right up until I bought it, but.. He had a Jones auxiliary pump to cool it between rounds. It was a 6.10 truck so trans heat on the 1.8th should be no issue. Maybe the Jones fluid pump was how he could keep trans temp in check?
Probably going to pull trans out, take input out and get a new pump. Not much else to do but guess. I know it is not raceable right now. My guess is one hard run on the 1/8th and trans would be 250-290, at least. So it is trying to eat itself up for some reason. When the trans gets to 225 driving around on the return roads and setting trans brake for a few seconds it is an issue.
Thanks for responding, appreciate it.
Jok Nicholson


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Posts: 1225 | Location: Janesville, IA | Registered: December 21, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Eman
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Where is the sensor?
 
Posts: 1497 | Location: E TN | Registered: February 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
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^^^^^^^ Where is the temp sensor located on the transmission? What brand sensor/ gauge? I’d check that the sensor ohms out correctly and is the correct sensor for the gauge. Not saying you don’t have a problem, just something to avoid not getting the correct display information.

I've had Autometer temp sensors fail showing hotter than normal.
 
Posts: 2534 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Eman
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I forgot about the sensor deal, Autometer makes 2 different sensors for their electric gauges, I found that out the hard way.
 
Posts: 1497 | Location: E TN | Registered: February 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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quote:
Autometer makes 2 different sensors for their electric gauges


Yes, the sensor needed depends on the sweep of the gauge. The other thing is that Autometer uses one wire sensors and depends on the installer to have the sensor grounded properly to work.
 
Posts: 2534 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
Picture of DON KALINA
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SEEN AN INTERESTING POST A YEAR AGO ON TRANS, HEAT.. LONG STORY SHORT...INCREASE THE CONVERTER END PLAY FROM 1/8 TO 3/16....COOLING PROBLEM SOLVED...
 
Posts: 62 | Location: Northwest | Registered: August 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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The sensor is about 1/2 way up the pan. It is a RPM Performance sensor for the RPM data logger and dash.
The trans is getting hot, the case, up by the fittings is 200+ with infra red when the digital display shows 220 in the pan.
I don't see anyway I can even go try to actually race it, my bet is it will be 250 after a run and need major cooldown. We just hooked up a sensor for trans pressure and should know that Monday.
Thanks for the ideas. Going to call Coan on the converter spacing. Seemed tight to me but we had .168" with converter back.
I will follow-up on this thread when I get more information.

Jok


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Posts: 1225 | Location: Janesville, IA | Registered: December 21, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Bruce Williams
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Like already mentioned, if stator tube is misaligned so cooling holes do not align properly or perhaps a ringless shaft in a non ringless pump or visa versa.


Bruce Lee Cool

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Posts: 2042 | Location: Chandler Arizona | Registered: August 11, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of 67TSCHEVY2
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If stator tube is misaligned the cooler line / converter charge pressure pressure will be way off
 
Posts: 1250 | Location: middle georgia | Registered: July 20, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
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Someone I know said to check the converter pressure at the out cooler line. Said is should be no more than 125 psi on trans brake.
 
Posts: 2534 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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Most of the usual suspects are already mentioned:

Ringless input shaft.
Stator support tube twisted or moved.
Pump configuration.

Interesting is that the IR gun shows 160, but trans is 200+. If you are shooting the pan and its aluminum or not painted, try painting a spot and shooting that spot. I find IR guns not accurate when shooting them on non painted aluminum and or stainless.

Swap out the electric sensor/data logger for a mechanical gage to read actual fluid temp in the pan. Could be a temporary setup just to validate what you are seeing. It does make sense that the case is hotter up by the fittings, that's converter charge going out to the cooler and returning back to the pan.
 
Posts: 408 | Location: Pride, La | Registered: April 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of rusty
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if the shaft and rings or lack of is not matched the cooling circuit will not see the flow it needs to work and cool


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Posts: 1434 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Stephen Hughes
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I made the ringless input in non ringless pump mistake a couple times. First time I didnt realize that was the issue. Second time I remembered the first time and light bulb went off lol. Both times trans would get smokin hot, like you are describing, but also my cooler and b&m ec canister would be cold. For example, trans temp 210 but you could put your hand on EC canister and it was barely warm. Made the final the second time, was doing all i could between rounds, fans, water on trans etc…..gauge was pegged past 250 when I staged in final and it finally bit me and fell off a few numbers. Also of note, car was about .15 slow like this, converter efficiency was gone due to lack of flow.


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Posts: 337 | Location: Texas | Registered: September 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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We are going to look into it today, time permitting. Thank you for all the ideas, hope it something simple, but that is pretty much what everyone hopes on a new race car, right?
Jok


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Posts: 1225 | Location: Janesville, IA | Registered: December 21, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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Update on the trans temp building faster than we are used to.
Pressure at the OUT fitting with trans in gear and above idle, 130-140-lbs. Definitely plenty.

Next up we will have the fan on the cooler functional.


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Posts: 1225 | Location: Janesville, IA | Registered: December 21, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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