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DRR Pro
posted
BBC 454 currently with steel heads running 6.0s on alky. I dont really have much info on the heads. 13to1 engine running a roller cam comp cams 11-703-9. 278/282, .714/.680. Car weight is 2750 with driver. Looking at Brodix BB2 Plus heads. Looking for reliability and consistency. Trying to get some weight off the front end.

What do you guys think about this combo?


--------------------
Bob Payton
S/P, T/D, S/C, TOP
309Z, 393, 3093, 8X93


www.apdracing.com
www.diamondracecars.com
www.callies.com
 
Posts: 1989 | Location: Michigan | Registered: November 14, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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Bob, speak to HS professor He’s been running a similar combo with those heads IIRC. for probably 15 years and switched to alcohol a few years back.
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
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Underwood turned me onto this one three decades ago.

BMF methanol

This one is For Sale FB market place $275 new in box.

I've been looking at making a switch to Brodix RaceRite heads, for my BBC's.

 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Bob, we assembled a 461 methanol combination for a 3100lb Nova that ran 5.9's at 114-115 year around. It was 14:1 with (self) ported Dart 310's that finished at 325cc using Comp's shelf grind 11-718-9. Very easy on valve train shifting at 7000 and running out the back door at 6800-6900.
 
Posts: 102 | Location: Ga | Registered: July 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
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quote:
Originally posted by 433red:
Bob, we assembled a 461 methanol combination for a 3100lb Nova that ran 5.9's at 114-115 year around. It was 14:1 with (self) ported Dart 310's that finished at 325cc using Comp's shelf grind 11-718-9. Very easy on valve train shifting at 7000 and running out the back door at 6800-6900.


Huge camshaft 106 degrees overlap.

You have talent porting heads.

What stall rpm, gear, tire diameter?
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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quote:
Huge camshaft 106 degrees overlap.

You have talent porting heads.

What stall rpm, gear, tire diameter?


Mike, thanks for recognizing the port work. I've learned a little over my 60+ years. Converter was a TSI 9" spragless with a 5600ish stall, 4.30 with 14/32 tire
 
Posts: 102 | Location: Ga | Registered: July 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob Payton:
BBC 454 currently with steel heads running 6.0s on alky. I dont really have much info on the heads. 13to1 engine running a roller cam comp cams 11-703-9. 278/282, .714/.680. Car weight is 2750 with driver. Looking at Brodix BB2 Plus heads. Looking for reliability and consistency. Trying to get some weight off the front end.

What do you guys think about this combo?


Bob

Without knowing more about the steel heads along with your power goals I will say this:

Intake ports will flow more and the exhaust will flow a lot more. The ex port flange is also .600" higher that the steel heads so header fit could be an issue.
Intake valve is likely larger than the steel heads (2.19 to 2.25) may need to check piston intake valve reliefs.
If your steel heads are open chamber heads you should have similar compression after the swap, if closed you will lose some CR.
If you have that cam I'd use it.
 
Posts: 2161 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
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The problem with the Brodix BB2 line is they are old design 26 deg. Heads with 990 old style chambers. Many have and can improve them, but it isn’t economical to go that route unless you already have the head castings. The Dart 310 would also be my pick to start with, but you will be waiting forever to get anything from Dart. The AFR 305 would therefore be my choice.

The AFR and Dart are both 24 deg. Heads with generous port entry corner radii and with modern style and improved chambers.

Any head from any vendor should go to a head specialist for a valve job prior to bolting on IMO.

Jason G.


'71 Chevelle
3370 lbs w/ SBC
5.93 @ 116.7 MPH - N/A
 
Posts: 345 | Location: North Texas | Registered: January 12, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
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quote:
Originally posted by 433red:
quote:
Huge camshaft 106 degrees overlap.

You have talent porting heads.

What stall rpm, gear, tire diameter?


Mike, thanks for recognizing the port work. I've learned a little over my 60+ years. Converter was a TSI 9" spragless with a 5600ish stall, 4.30 with 14/32 tire


I'd say. That's a bad dude.

LIKE
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob Payton:
BBC 454 currently with steel heads running 6.0s on alky. I dont really have much info on the heads. 13to1 engine running a roller cam comp cams 11-703-9. 278/282, .714/.680. Car weight is 2750 with driver. Looking at Brodix BB2 Plus heads. Looking for reliability and consistency. Trying to get some weight off the front end.

What do you guys think about this combo?


I had a set on my old 555 and it ran 5.20 at 2470lbs on alcohol
 
Posts: 242 | Location: Vanceboro NC | Registered: February 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of HS professor
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quote:
BBC 454 currently with steel heads running 6.0s on alky. I dont really have much info on the heads. 13to1 engine running a roller cam comp cams 11-703-9. 278/282, .714/.680. Car weight is 2750 with driver. Looking at Brodix BB2 Plus heads. Looking for reliability and consistency. Trying to get some weight off the front end.

What do you guys think about this combo?



I actually like the BB2 plus on a 454, they always seem to run good regardless of combo. I bet you pick up a decent amount. I have a set on a 454 with a Lunati 272/280 .722" and it's been low 6.30's deepstaged at 110+@ 3350lbs on gas. We tried this combo on alcohol for a weekend and it picked up a bunch, I think it went 6.17 @ 112 deepstaged if I remember correctly, it's been a while.
I have since been using a set of 305 CNC BB1's. I had Jones do a cam for me that's smaller than the Lunati I usually ran and it runs real well. It's been a best of 6.12 @ 115 or 9.59 @ 142 deepstaged on gas with mufflers @ 3350lbs . The fastest 454 we built yet. I'm sure on alky it will easily run 5.80's /5.90's but we leave that car on gas for simplicity.
Sorry for all the deepstaged BS, but it's all we do, deep off the bottom.

I also have a new engine I just build with brand new Dart 310's. It runs good but I think the BB2's are a bit faster.

I like your choice, I think you'll be happy.
 
Posts: 1422 | Location: Monroe twp nj | Registered: December 05, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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quote:
Originally posted by DragRacerSBC:
The problem with the Brodix BB2 line is they are old design 26 deg. Heads with 990 old style chambers. Many have and can improve them, but it isn’t economical to go that route unless you already have the head castings. The Dart 310 would also be my pick to start with, but you will be waiting forever to get anything from Dart. The AFR 305 would therefore be my choice.

The AFR and Dart are both 24 deg. Heads with generous port entry corner radii and with modern style and improved chambers.

Any head from any vendor should go to a head specialist for a valve job prior to bolting on IMO.

Jason G.


Jason

For the combo given here there is no problem with 26 degree heads! In fact, it's a better fit with the current pistons in that motor! The swap he is talking about will provide him a good amount of perform gains from both a reduction in weight and a far superior cylinder head! A good set of BB2's are just as good as Dart 310's and they are a stronger casting too.
 
Posts: 2161 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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quote:
Originally posted by 433red:
Bob, we assembled a 461 methanol combination for a 3100lb Nova that ran 5.9's at 114-115 year around. It was 14:1 with (self) ported Dart 310's that finished at 325cc using Comp's shelf grind 11-718-9. Very easy on valve train shifting at 7000 and running out the back door at 6800-6900.


Back in early 90's I did a 454 on gas with a set of BB2's that I ported, ran it in a 3250 lbs car that ran 6.0's and 6.10's. Can't remember the cam but it was very similar and only has 12.75 compression.

With this combo, Dart, Brodix and AFR will all work good!!
 
Posts: 2161 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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quote:
Originally posted by TOP38:
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Payton:
BBC 454 currently with steel heads running 6.0s on alky. I dont really have much info on the heads. 13to1 engine running a roller cam comp cams 11-703-9. 278/282, .714/.680. Car weight is 2750 with driver. Looking at Brodix BB2 Plus heads. Looking for reliability and consistency. Trying to get some weight off the front end.

What do you guys think about this combo?


Bob

Without knowing more about the steel heads along with your power goals I will say this:

Intake ports will flow more and the exhaust will flow a lot more. The ex port flange is also .600" higher that the steel heads so header fit could be an issue.
Intake valve is likely larger than the steel heads (2.19 to 2.25) may need to check piston intake valve reliefs.
If your steel heads are open chamber heads you should have similar compression after the swap, if closed you will lose some CR.
If you have that cam I'd use it.


The Steel heads are old Pro-Topline heads. I dont know much other then that. The engine made 700hp on gas when it was dynoed. The goal is to get the most out of the combo without killing reliability. Thought lighter aluminum heads would help the car rotate a little more, and pick up about .05 in ET


--------------------
Bob Payton
S/P, T/D, S/C, TOP
309Z, 393, 3093, 8X93


www.apdracing.com
www.diamondracecars.com
www.callies.com
 
Posts: 1989 | Location: Michigan | Registered: November 14, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Top Comp
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by TOP38:
quote:
Originally posted by 433red:
Bob, we assembled a 461 methanol combination for a 3100lb Nova that ran 5.9's at 114-115 year around. It was 14:1 with (self) ported Dart 310's that finished at 325cc using Comp's shelf grind 11-718-9. Very easy on valve train shifting at 7000 and running out the back door at 6800-6900.


Back in early 90's I did a 454 on gas with a set of BB2's that I ported, ran it in a 3250 lbs car that ran 6.0's and 6.10's. Can't remember the cam but it was very similar and only has 12.75 compression.

With this combo, Dart, Brodix and AFR will all work good!!


Damn, you got outrun by a 23 sbc in a 3200lb factory condition muscle car on a 10" tire? Why I am not surprised. Smile
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Bob, another choice could be the Trick Flow 320's... Lot's of good stuff coming out of TFS lately, so I would maybe give them a consider as well.


Nick Craig

1971 Camaro Split Bumper
376ci LS3
 
Posts: 410 | Location: Ohio | Registered: December 28, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob Payton:
quote:
Originally posted by TOP38:
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Payton:
BBC 454 currently with steel heads running 6.0s on alky. I dont really have much info on the heads. 13to1 engine running a roller cam comp cams 11-703-9. 278/282, .714/.680. Car weight is 2750 with driver. Looking at Brodix BB2 Plus heads. Looking for reliability and consistency. Trying to get some weight off the front end.

What do you guys think about this combo?


Bob

Without knowing more about the steel heads along with your power goals I will say this:

Intake ports will flow more and the exhaust will flow a lot more. The ex port flange is also .600" higher that the steel heads so header fit could be an issue.
Intake valve is likely larger than the steel heads (2.19 to 2.25) may need to check piston intake valve reliefs.
If your steel heads are open chamber heads you should have similar compression after the swap, if closed you will lose some CR.
If you have that cam I'd use it.


The Steel heads are old Pro-Topline heads. I dont know much other then that. The engine made 700hp on gas when it was dynoed. The goal is to get the most out of the combo without killing reliability. Thought lighter aluminum heads would help the car rotate a little more, and pick up about .05 in ET


Bob

Don't know much about those heads but they should be better than the stock 990 heads and probably heavier too. I would bet you would lose a good 80 pounds of the nose. I believe the Dart steel heads to AL heads is about 100 lbs! Those Dart steel heads were much heavier than the stock ones!

On your current combo, it's only showing about 625hp, well short of 700hp. You would need a 12 plus percent correction factor to get dyno 700 HP! I bet it's much closer to 650-665 max.

Either way just the weight loss alone should be worth .05 in the 1/8 as you stated. Any more or less will depend on the head prep of your old ones vs new.

With regards to reliability, there should be no difference with any AL head you choose vs what you have now, that cam is easy on springs!
 
Posts: 2161 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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