quote:

Originally posted by imakehp:

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:
What is your box interface in the lanes? Touch screen? I was just uncomfortable enough with my megasquirt screen that we didn’t eliminate the delay box from the car. Gloves on impossible for us. FT’s interface may be easier

I'm arm wrestling with my MS3 right now....Don't suppose I could talk you into sending me some of your files/set-up ? I just switched over from a ms2 to the 3 . Could not get an RPM sinal....come to find out I have to install a BIP773 circuit on the MS3 board to use my MSD crank trigger ....That kit is coming from DIY next week...Figure a VE table should be pretty easy....just idle, burn out, stage and pedal to the metal for the entire run...Have 8 EGT's and 2 O2 sensors to keep an eye on things

Sure! I'm using an ms2pro-ultimate. Not sure how different that is but I didn't have to use anything extra for the crank signal. I'll help however I can certainly.

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:

quote:

Originally po
I'm arm wrestling with my MS3 right now....Don't suppose I could talk you into sending me some of your files/set-up ? I just switched over from a ms2 to the 3 . Could not get an RPM sinal....come to find out I have to install a BIP773 circuit on the MS3 board to use my MSD crank trigger ....That kit is coming from DIY next week...Figure a VE table should be pretty easy....just idle, burn out, stage and pedal to the metal for the entire run...Have 8 EGT's and 2 O2 sensors to keep an eye on things

Sure! I'm using an ms2pro-ultimate. Not sure how different that is but I didn't have to use anything extra for the crank signal. I'll help however I can certainly.

Yeah, typical non-sense from MS-Land...."Just unplug your MS2 and plug in the MS3" ........NOT


If I can look at your VE table that'll give me a headstart.....I found I have to give it a lot of squirt to start the engine. Especially when it's cold. I understand thats normal for almost any cold engine but I can't just pump the throttle with the EFI...I'm certain there's a setting somewhere to give it whatever shot of fuel I need for it to fire up.....First I have to get the RPM signal in...The MS2 worked fine with the ignition box TACH output terminal....BTW I'm fuel only

quote:

Originally posted by imakehp:

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:

quote:

Originally po
I'm arm wrestling with my MS3 right now....Don't suppose I could talk you into sending me some of your files/set-up ? I just switched over from a ms2 to the 3 . Could not get an RPM sinal....come to find out I have to install a BIP773 circuit on the MS3 board to use my MSD crank trigger ....That kit is coming from DIY next week...Figure a VE table should be pretty easy....just idle, burn out, stage and pedal to the metal for the entire run...Have 8 EGT's and 2 O2 sensors to keep an eye on things

Sure! I'm using an ms2pro-ultimate. Not sure how different that is but I didn't have to use anything extra for the crank signal. I'll help however I can certainly.

Yeah, typical non-sense from MS-Land...."Just unplug your MS2 and plug in the MS3" ........NOT


If I can look at your VE table that'll give me a headstart.....I found I have to give it a lot of squirt to start the engine. Especially when it's cold. I understand thats normal for almost any cold engine but I can't just pump the throttle with the EFI...I'm certain there's a setting somewhere to give it whatever shot of fuel I need for it to fire up.....First I have to get the RPM signal in...The MS2 worked fine with the ignition box TACH output terminal....BTW I'm fuel only

There are 2 ways, adjust the "priming pulse" size and/or "cranking pulse" size.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by sr4440:

quote:

Originally posted by imakehp:

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:

quote:

Originally po
I'm arm wrestling with my MS3 right now....Don't suppose I could talk you into sending me some of your files/set-up ? I just switched over from a ms2 to the 3 . Could not get an RPM sinal....come to find out I have to install a BIP773 circuit on the MS3 board to use my MSD crank trigger ....That kit is coming from DIY next week...Figure a VE table should be pretty easy....just idle, burn out, stage and pedal to the metal for the entire run...Have 8 EGT's and 2 O2 sensors to keep an eye on things

Sure! I'm using an ms2pro-ultimate. Not sure how different that is but I didn't have to use anything extra for the crank signal. I'll help however I can certainly.

Yeah, typical non-sense from MS-Land...."Just unplug your MS2 and plug in the MS3" ........NOT


If I can look at your VE table that'll give me a headstart.....I found I have to give it a lot of squirt to start the engine. Especially when it's cold. I understand thats normal for almost any cold engine but I can't just pump the throttle with the EFI...I'm certain there's a setting somewhere to give it whatever shot of fuel I need for it to fire up.....First I have to get the RPM signal in...The MS2 worked fine with the ignition box TACH output terminal....BTW I'm fuel only

There are 2 ways, adjust the "priming pulse" size and/or "cranking pulse" size.

Joe

With alky I have not found the priming pulse to be useful. I have a mechanical pump and there is really no residual pressure when you hit the ignition so that squirt does virtually nothing. If the electric holds pressure I suppose it would help. Or if you turn on the pump first of course that would help.

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:


With alky I have not found the priming pulse to be useful. I have a mechanical pump and there is really no residual pressure when you hit the ignition so that squirt does virtually nothing. If the electric holds pressure I suppose it would help. Or if you turn on the pump first of course that would help.

Now you tell me "the rest of the story" LOL. I have the same setup. Methanol, mechanical pump. Turn your "cranking pulse" up to 400-500 so your injectors are almost wide open until the engine starts.

quote:

Originally posted by sr4440:

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:


With alky I have not found the priming pulse to be useful. I have a mechanical pump and there is really no residual pressure when you hit the ignition so that squirt does virtually nothing. If the electric holds pressure I suppose it would help. Or if you turn on the pump first of course that would help.

Now you tell me "the rest of the story" LOL. I have the same setup. Methanol, mechanical pump. Turn your "cranking pulse" up to 400-500 so your injectors are almost wide open until the engine starts.

Yes!

This system has way more capabilities than the grid. How is it legal in bracket racing and why doesn't anyone care? There have been so many finger pointing and accusing people of cheating with the grid yet no one cares about about EFI.

quote:

Originally posted by TomR:
This system has way more capabilities than the grid. How is it legal in bracket racing and why doesn't anyone care? There have been so many finger pointing and accusing people of cheating with the grid yet no one cares about about EFI.

I think they care but........ Where/how do you start to enforce all this technology. Let's take traction control for an example; a good many production cars have this feature. These cars are raced regularly in the Sportsman & Pro classes. Heck, I even have it on my 2023 Chevy Duramax dually.

I don't know how well the factory traction control works for bracket racing, but the people have the option to use it or not. Is it legal? I say no, but I'm not overly concerned about it.



2BKING

Traction control on a stock vehicle if used, will slow the run down and can make you much slower than your dial. Been there, done that.

I'll just add this, maybe I'm reading to much into it but it sure looks suspect to me.

quote:

Time based revolution limiter
The RPM control is based on seven RPM and time points that can be determined as shown in the image above. This function is frequently used in drag racing cars, because it makes it
easier to control the vehicle, once it allows the traction to be recovered through an ignition cut ramp.

quote:

Time based speed (cut)
This feature is the same as the time based RPM (cut) but instead of using the engine RPM, it uses the wheel speed or the driveshaft RPM It will perform ignition cut to keep the wheel speed/driveshaft RPM
under a predefined curve. The “Time based RPM (cut) - Limit” is the maximum level, which means the percentage of ignition events that will be cut to keep the engine under the rev limiter.
The RPM progression range acts as a smoothing for ignition cut.

quote:

Time based speed (retard)
This feature reads the wheel speed (or the driveshaft RPM) and applies ignition compensation, according to the two RPM curves (A and B) to control launch. The basic idea is to retard the ignition timing, reducing power to the
wheels. When the wheel speed reaches the programmed in the “speed curve A”, the ECU starts the programmed retard in the “delay curve A point”. As the speed increases, and goes toward the curve “B” speed, the
retard applied to the timing (that is interpolated between the two retard curves) is incremented. Thus, if the initial retard made by curve A is not sufficient to hold the speed of the vehicle, the retard will increase
as much as the RPM increase. In cases where the speed/RPM exceeds the limits of the curve “B”, the maximum retard (entered in curve B) will be applied.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TomR,

quote:

Originally posted by B KING:
I think they care but........ Where/how do you start to enforce all this technology.

Back to my opening statement & it should have been a question.

Do the rules need to be clarified or changed? Heck, I don't know.

9:11 TRACTION CONTROL
Any type of traction-control device, electronic or mechanical, is
prohibited. A traction-control device is any unit or system that
uses live data to control functions of the vehicle, such as tire
slip, which are not controlled by the driver. These devices are,
but not limited to, timing control based on wheel, driveline, or
engine acceleration, braking control, throttle control, tire-shake
meters, vertical acceleration meters, misfire control, stutter
box, relays, and/or rpm-activated chips.


2BKING

Check out our YouTube page! We just installed a FuelTech 550 in our S/pro Vega during our summer off season. Myself and my 12yr old son did the entire install and wiring. A few things to know, there are separate firmware’s that you use for your specific class be it box or no box. They are NHRA certified and can easily be checked to be sure you are running the legal software. Very easy to see if traction control is in use or not. FuelTech is an awesome company that was willing to partner with some no names in Tucson to help expand their product reach. I suggest doing some more research and checking out our channel as we catalog our use of FuelTech products. Feel free to ask me any questions you have. I’ll answer to the best of my ability.

https://youtube.com/@rienstraf...?si=dkemyXlMpabz3Bru

I think the "traction control" discussion deserves its own topic post.

quote:

Originally posted by Nick rienstra:
Check out our YouTube page! We just installed a FuelTech 550 in our S/pro Vega during our summer off season. Myself and my 12yr old son did the entire install and wiring. A few things to know, there are separate firmware’s that you use for your specific class be it box or no box. They are NHRA certified and can easily be checked to be sure you are running the legal software. Very easy to see if traction control is in use or not. FuelTech is an awesome company that was willing to partner with some no names in Tucson to help expand their product reach. I suggest doing some more research and checking out our channel as we catalog our use of FuelTech products. Feel free to ask me any questions you have. I’ll answer to the best of my ability.

https://youtube.com/@rienstraf...?si=dkemyXlMpabz3Bru

Cost for that system?

The cost was significantly cheaper than buying a stand alone data logger, modern delay box, ignition control, switch panel and more! Then it added future capabilities for EFI. In our case it was a no brainer. Our car was still using parts of the original wiring harness. I turned the original key to start. All of that came out and was replaced by my son and myself with the new FT system. Check out their website https://www.fueltech.net/. Pricing is on there. Sign up for their email they run specials all the time.

I’m surprised at the $2500 price tag. I gotta admit if I were starting over I’d get one.

That FT550 would be a good deal if having many items integrated into the ECU display works for you. A barebones harness, connectors and sensors from Low Dollar easily under $2500. They are very proud of their Display boards recently reduced from $499 to $379 each.

I don’t know how one could run in both the box and no-box class with the delay integrated into this control.

quote:

Originally posted by markemark:
That FT550 would be a good deal if having many items integrated into the ECU display works for you. A barebones harness, connectors and sensors from Low Dollar easily under $2500. They are very proud of their Display boards recently reduced from $499 to $379 each.

I don’t know how one could run in both the box and no-box class with the delay integrated into this control.

The only things I saw noteworthy about that model is that it does not have data transfer wifi. That's a pretty handy feature. Also doesn't use a VE table for fuel. I'm not sure that is any kind of game changer for me. Still a good amount of inputs and outputs. I didn't see anything about wastegate control. I'll have to read up more. We usually use two solenoids to control co2 dome pressure.

As far as wiring: What would be the neatest: Landing everything with terminal strips? On a dragster at least that would be a pretty large bundle that will have to make its way through the driver area back to the engine area either way.

Wonder if OhioWireMafia ever visits anymore. That was a good one that is missed.

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:
Wonder if OhioWireMafia ever visits anymore. That was a good one that is missed.

I have seen him on Facebook a couple times but haven't seen him on here for a looong time.

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:The only things I saw noteworthy about that model is that it does not have data transfer wifi. That's a pretty handy feature. Also doesn't use a VE table for fuel. I'm not sure that is any kind of game changer for me. Still a good amount of inputs and outputs. I didn't see anything about wastegate control. I'll have to read up more. We usually use two solenoids to control co2 dome pressure..

Wifi is a to be released FT700 feature that has a $5k price. I use SD and understand those that use/ prefer VE from Holley and others.

FuelTech comes with a 1 yr warranty and I am told excellent customer tech service compared to Holleys 90 day warranty and questionable tech help. But am also told their excellent tech help is needed.

Last weekend at a four-day event, two of the racers I know installed FuelTech this year. One car professionally wired that was believed to have a launch rpm issue, and the other was wired by the racer that had the shift output stop working on the second day.

When one decides to switch to ECU, it’s wise to have a plan for the unexpected failures. To me this includes a laptop and working knowledge (to include troubleshooting) of the product.

My preference is stand-alone products to run my race car. I have two of everything electrical that can’t use a work around if failed to get me through an event.