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Alcohol carb vs injection - thoughts, advice and opinions welcome
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DRR Sportsman
posted
I have been running alcohol carbs forever but I'm thinking of switching to a toilet bowl. I picked one up used a few years ago and its been sitting on the shelf. I tried it for a couple weeks but had major problems. I switched back to a carb and had the same problems. I swapped converters and straightened the car out but never put the injection back on it.

Fast forward to today. Been kicking around the thought of trying it again in 2021. I really liked how responsive it was for foot braking and think I will be setting the car up for FB and No box for next year. I need to replace/update the barrel valve since I have the old purple one which are known to have problems. I do have a primer plus and did replace all the hoses/lines previously.

Just wondering what, if any, advice or thoughts you all had on this either way.

6.30 car, powerglide with small tires


Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the writer and do not reflect the views or opinions of any entity other than myself.

72 Nova 370 ci (Stealth Black)
 
Posts: 394 | Location: Hanover, MD | Registered: July 22, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Bo Laws carb, 3400 lb street car 10" tire sbc S/Pro.



 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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The newer black BV is best.

If not already, a 10an filter in front of the pump and 6an after is a wise choice.

The PP is a great addition. My engine runs on this whenever not on the racing surface.

Call James Monroe at Killer Rons with what you presently have and he can advise on a good starting point for the pill / injector sizes if needed. Having some other pill sizes to try will make for better results.
 
Posts: 2410 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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quote:
Originally posted by markemark:
The newer black BV is best.

If not already, a 10an filter in front of the pump and 6an after is a wise choice.

The PP is a great addition. My engine runs on this whenever not on the racing surface.

Call James Monroe at Killer Rons with what you presently have and he can advise on a good starting point for the pill / injector sizes if needed. Having some other pill sizes to try will make for better results.


Contacted James and he gave me a starting point for the current combo.

I hurt the old 355 last year and stuck the 370 back in it. More compression, more CI and a bigger cam, should go slower lol. Never had a chance to run it this year. With the pandemic and threat of a lock down, I decided to hang quarters and chopped the back of the car off. Haven't missed a day at work, go figure.


Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the writer and do not reflect the views or opinions of any entity other than myself.

72 Nova 370 ci (Stealth Black)
 
Posts: 394 | Location: Hanover, MD | Registered: July 22, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
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I have ran both alcohol carbs and injection. For footbraking you may be better off with a carb. For overall performance injection will usually perform better. Carbs were easier to start and use less fuel. If I remember right injection was .15- .20 faster when I got it dialed in.
Fuel supply system is critical with both.


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Posts: 3943 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of C Hodge
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It’s all in preference on the answers you’ll get. I’ve had Rupert, Ken Jones, Get’em Garage, Apd, Aed carbs and now I’m running 2-1475 terminators. The injection is by far the most consistent and easiest to tune with only one bypass pill to change. Once you figure out the tune it’s simple from there. The downfall some have is hard starting and using more fuel with injection. I have the primer plus but only use it starting the car and it’s been a non issue for me and use the Leanout when warming up. As far as fuel usage I may use a half quart more per pass than I did with the carbs. Some will say the only way to get injection right is have it flowed. I did that and I’m 30 sizes bigger on bypass than what was said to be perfect so it was a waste of money
 
Posts: 234 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: December 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Lenny5160
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I’ve had Ron‘s injection on dragsters since 2004 and love it, but I also like the alky carb that’s been on my door car since 2000.

I’ve briefly considered changing the door car since the throttle response is incredible and I hate when fuel drips down the boosters, but it would need the surge tank under the hood, an electric pump to supply that and then where to put the primer fuel? Seems simpler to just leave the carb on it.


Tony Leonard
 
Posts: 3138 | Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN | Registered: March 18, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
Picture of AlkyIROC
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People still like carbs because they understand them. An alcohol carb just flows more fuel but the basics of how a carb works is the same.

I ran dual alcohol carbs for a couple of years. Car was still fast and consistent however changing jets in four float bowls became a little annoying.

Switched over to dual toilets and never looked back. Needed to change a few things like going to a belt driven pump etc but after running injection, I won't go back to a carb. Cleaner, simpler, faster/easier to do tuning changes.


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Best ET: 9.029
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Posts: 1347 | Location: Calgary | Registered: June 06, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of rusty
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if memory serves,injection is worth 8 percent on power


honesty is the best policy,insanity is a better deffense
1.036, 6.16@ 224

 
Posts: 1389 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by AlkyIROC: People still like carbs because they understand them.


Really ??..lol..I haven’t a clue on all that hardware in a carb. All those brass jets in the top, adjustment screws on blocks attached front and back, bowls with floats and more adjustments, squirters in the tops and probably more that I’m not aware of. Racers I know that use these have 2 or more on the shelf as well in different sizes.
 
Posts: 2410 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of rusty
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and remember the guy that invented a carb may have ridden to work that morning on a horse


honesty is the best policy,insanity is a better deffense
1.036, 6.16@ 224

 
Posts: 1389 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by rusty:
and remember the guy that invented a carb may have ridden to work that morning on a horse


This has a Bo Laws Dominator carb. Nobody all steel 3200 lbs 10 x 28 tire out of the box Brodix /AFR 23 sbc heads can out run it n/a.

I built the engine and transmission.

Looks to me like carburetors have it sown up in this thread. Consistency and power so far. Evidenced.



Most MPH too 6.40 or slower, no throttle stop.

 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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408 ford

ran a cheap alky carb for a few years and it was fine. Had an issue with it and borrowed a rupert 4150 from a friend to use for the weekend, picked up .06 on average. Sold my carb and gave the rupert back to my friend and tossed a toilet on it. It was .15 faster than the cheap carb. Footbrake. Footbraking is where it shines. Throttle response is crisp, predictable, and consistent--makes for a consistent reaction time and 60' if the car is set up correctly. Was 5.88-5.92 all year long.

simplicity is where I really like the toilet. Compare a carb. Pump diaphragms squirters 5 or 6 gaskets linkages, etc. That said a good carb doesn't need to be touched. Toilet if you have to touch it, it's super simple. Takes 30 seconds to change a pill, 5 min to change all 8 nozzle jets. I have lost rounds due to a problem with a carburetor. I have never had a problem with a toilet. Simplicity is it's forte'.
 
Posts: 540 | Location: central Ar | Registered: June 21, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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Carb vs Injection

- carbs do what they are told by the engine and they also self adjust based on air density. MFI is stupid, all it knows is rpm and at a given rpm, it sends a specific volume of fuel to the motor whether it wants it or not.
- Making a fuel change is much easier & faster with injection vs a carb but changing jets in a carb is not HARD either.
- Carb combo's don't have the hard start issues that MFI have, however a primer plus fixes this but adds cost and another system
- Both setup correctly work!
- MFI is faster than a carb, how much depends on how good your carb was/is
- When you start making good power, at and over 1.8 HP/CID, MFI does a better job delivering both the quantity and quality of fuel to the motor than a carb or carbs
- Carbs require more maintenance than MFI such as changing floats on a regular basis w/alky
- Both carbs and injection require some basic knowledge to tune, one is not really any more complicated than the other. All motors need xx fuel at idle and yy fuel at WOT and it don't care how you do it.

In general I have no idea why any one runs a dual carb deal for bracket racing. For TD and TS it makes sense but not for regular bracket racing, not to mention you can get a single carb large enough to feed any bracket motor.

So let the debate carry on.
 
Posts: 2136 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Top Comp
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quote:
Originally posted by TOP38:
Carb vs Injection

- carbs do what they are told by the engine and they also self adjust based on air density. MFI is stupid, all it knows is rpm and at a given rpm, it sends a specific volume of fuel to the motor whether it wants it or not.
- Making a fuel change is much easier & faster with injection vs a carb but changing jets in a carb is not HARD either.
- Carb combo's don't have the hard start issues that MFI have, however a primer plus fixes this but adds cost and another system
- Both setup correctly work!
- MFI is faster than a carb, how much depends on how good your carb was/is
- When you start making good power, at and over 1.8 HP/CID, MFI does a better job delivering both the quantity and quality of fuel to the motor than a carb or carbs
- Carbs require more maintenance than MFI such as changing floats on a regular basis w/alky
- Both carbs and injection require some basic knowledge to tune, one is not really any more complicated than the other. All motors need xx fuel at idle and yy fuel at WOT and it don't care how you do it.

In general I have no idea why any one runs a dual carb deal for bracket racing. For TD and TS it makes sense but not for regular bracket racing, not to mention you can get a single carb large enough to feed any bracket motor.

So let the debate carry on.


Hard start? What hard start? Dump gasoline down its throat, it'll start right up.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
quote:
Originally posted by TOP38:
Carb vs Injection

- carbs do what they are told by the engine and they also self adjust based on air density. MFI is stupid, all it knows is rpm and at a given rpm, it sends a specific volume of fuel to the motor whether it wants it or not.
- Making a fuel change is much easier & faster with injection vs a carb but changing jets in a carb is not HARD either.
- Carb combo's don't have the hard start issues that MFI have, however a primer plus fixes this but adds cost and another system
- Both setup correctly work!
- MFI is faster than a carb, how much depends on how good your carb was/is
- When you start making good power, at and over 1.8 HP/CID, MFI does a better job delivering both the quantity and quality of fuel to the motor than a carb or carbs
- Carbs require more maintenance than MFI such as changing floats on a regular basis w/alky
- Both carbs and injection require some basic knowledge to tune, one is not really any more complicated than the other. All motors need xx fuel at idle and yy fuel at WOT and it don't care how you do it.

In general I have no idea why any one runs a dual carb deal for bracket racing. For TD and TS it makes sense but not for regular bracket racing, not to mention you can get a single carb large enough to feed any bracket motor.

So let the debate carry on.


Hard start? What hard start? Dump gasoline down its throat, it'll start right up.


Einstein, they call that a Primer Plus these days.... Loser
 
Posts: 2136 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of CURTIS REED
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Anyone who dumps gas down it's throat should learn where the nearest burn center is. Carb cleaner works much better because there is less liquid when you spray it and you can put it in from a distance.

I have seen guys use gas and the car spit back, then go to dump more in and there is fire in the intake. Granted these guys obviously weren't very smart. LOL



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Posts: 2897 | Location: KIEFER, OK. | Registered: August 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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Especially when it’s cooler out, I’ve watched racers dump gasoline down an intake to start their engine initially. I agree with others, to me this is a poor choice.

Rons offers that Basic Primer System that only requires a single nozzle opening that could be placed in a carb spacer. The entire kit uses little install space. A $235 safer and more efficient starting method if wanting gasoline imho.

The PP is definitely the system to look at if starting and running the engine for extended periods on gasoline is desired.
 
Posts: 2410 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by TOP38:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
quote:
Originally posted by TOP38:
Carb vs Injection

- carbs do what they are told by the engine and they also self adjust based on air density. MFI is stupid, all it knows is rpm and at a given rpm, it sends a specific volume of fuel to the motor whether it wants it or not.
- Making a fuel change is much easier & faster with injection vs a carb but changing jets in a carb is not HARD either.
- Carb combo's don't have the hard start issues that MFI have, however a primer plus fixes this but adds cost and another system
- Both setup correctly work!
- MFI is faster than a carb, how much depends on how good your carb was/is
- When you start making good power, at and over 1.8 HP/CID, MFI does a better job delivering both the quantity and quality of fuel to the motor than a carb or carbs
- Carbs require more maintenance than MFI such as changing floats on a regular basis w/alky
- Both carbs and injection require some basic knowledge to tune, one is not really any more complicated than the other. All motors need xx fuel at idle and yy fuel at WOT and it don't care how you do it.

In general I have no idea why any one runs a dual carb deal for bracket racing. For TD and TS it makes sense but not for regular bracket racing, not to mention you can get a single carb large enough to feed any bracket motor.

So let the debate carry on.


Hard start? What hard start? Dump gasoline down its throat, it'll start right up.


Einstein, they call that a Primer Plus these days.... Loser


I have one, it's a splash of gasoline in my fuel jug cap, works like a charm! Maybe I'm just practiced in the art of cold start.

Carry on!! Smile
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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I had a primer plus on the car when I tried injection in the past. I still have it and consider it part of the Ron's unit, they went on and came off together. I used pump gas in it and had problems with it. Broke a starter, backfiring out the exhaust. It was an 11:1 355, shouldn't have been a problem. Mostly operator error.

With the alcohol carb, I just use the gas side if the nitrous plate to help start it when its cold out.

I have 2 Sinke carbs (a 750 and a 850) and a Quickfuel 850 is what was on the car last year.

The car printed tickets with the carb, the driver is the weakest link in my racing program lol.


Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the writer and do not reflect the views or opinions of any entity other than myself.

72 Nova 370 ci (Stealth Black)
 
Posts: 394 | Location: Hanover, MD | Registered: July 22, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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