Running Methanol

June 25, 2018, 07:08 PM

markemark

Running Methanol

quote:
Originally posted by CURTIS REED:
quote:
Originally posted by Lenny5160:
quote:
Originally posted by Robbie Welch:
Should I use top lube? Any particular brand? How much and how oven?

I use Klotz Uplon, 1 quart per drum.

Same ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Definitely Klotz Uplon. If you purchase a drum of methanol, put the quart of Uplon in when you pick it up and it’ll get shook up on the ride home.

June 25, 2018, 07:23 PM

RacerVX54

I laugh at guys saying you cant run a rear cell...

June 26, 2018, 08:43 AM

1st_Gen

I ran a Mallory Comp 140 pump with a rear cell, Mallory dead head regulator with no issues 1/8th mile. Went 6.0's. Only issue I had was if I set the float levels too low. I wouldn't recommend it for 1/4 mile. Not the ultimate setup, but far inferior to what you have. The BG 400 and rear cell will work just fine. Make sure your regulator is large enough and you will be good to go. Stay under 8psi fuel pressure. I know several guys running Holley Black pumps well into the 6's with rear mounted cells. I think too many people try to run pressure too high with an electric pump, which requires setting the floats too low to compensate for the pressure, then they run out of fuel down track because there's no room for the floats to drop and open the needles/seats far enough.

June 26, 2018, 06:06 PM

Iforgot

Just done an alky conversion with a rear cell and a BG400.
Rebuilt BG400 with the alky safe seals, -10 to the fuel log, Aeromotive A2000 bypass regulator on the other end of the log,-8 return from regulator to cell. Also used a -8 from the built in bypass on the BG400 to the cell. Set fuel pressure to 7.5, quick fuel alky 850, and works fine. I have a 1/4” vacuum hose from carb spacer to the “boost reference” inlet on the regulator, drops fuel pressure a little at idle but not really necessary.
It works ok now, but I do wish I’d have ran -12 supply and -10 return. With a 12 gallon cell, I can make several passes IF I had to without running out of alky.
Also have a -8 going to a 3/8 ball valve inside for a leanout..

June 26, 2018, 07:25 PM

mavman

quote:
Originally posted by Luvtruck:
quote:
Originally posted by mavman:
Been down this road. '85 Mustang coupe, cell in rear. 306" SBF 7.00 on gas. Went to a methanol carb, no other changes. The pump was a big BG pump as the car was purchased set up for a big nitrous shot. Ran fine. 6.80 on methanol. Destroyed the engine and stuck my backup 408 in it. Too lean. Would barely run the full 1/8 mile without falling on it's face. Tried an even bigger Magnafuel pump, 1/2" lines, 704 holley regulator. Wasn't any better. One of the locals said to try a cell in the front and I did--using the same old BG pump, and the car picked up 5 tenths and 11 mph in the 1/8. From 6.80/99 the week before to 6.28/110. Later on we put a used toilet system on it and picked it up another tenth and a mph or so. From that point on, I've decided to ditch the rear cell. Well actually I haven't. On my main race car, I left the rear cell and put a 3 gal cell in the front. I use the rear one for primer plus system/idle on gas.

Try the carb/reg/rear cell and see if it works for you. If it doesn't, you'll probably want to invest in a front mounted cell.

Then you didn't have the pump pressure adjusted high enough because I have the Mallory 250 on my truck with the cell in the back and 60' 1.19 and 5.60's with a 436sbc with no issues.

Heard that many times. Tried everything from 4 psi to 15 psi; with very little difference. I'm not the only one with this complaint, either. Many have tried it and many have failed, and some have been able to make it work just fine.

June 27, 2018, 05:34 AM

Robbie Welch

(Iforgot) how much ET did you pick up? What comb where you running before the switch?

June 27, 2018, 05:35 AM

B.C.Malibu

1/2" aluminum line?

June 27, 2018, 06:12 AM

Curly1

Some have done it and it worked but the best way is to do it right and out fuel pump down low and behind the cell if possible. Some have done it and have weird problems and not consistent because it did not have good constant fuel flow. Front cell or back cell does not matter much both work fine if pump is located right.
If there is any restriction on inlet side of the pump it cuts its performance. If the pump is up too high or filter is too small and restrictive it hurts both volume and pressure on it.
You want gravity and G-forces to help that pump work. Think about that when you design your system, now not everything can be perfect but try to get it right when you do or you may be chasing your tail later. The further you are from optimum the more likely you are to have issues later.

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June 27, 2018, 09:44 AM

Lenny5160

quote:
Originally posted by Robbie Welch:
(Iforgot) how much ET did you pick up? What comb where you running before the switch?

How much compression do you have, Robbie? Unless your combo is pretty optimized with a high HP per cubic inch, 3 tenths is a pretty standard gain. Generally 5% increase in HP and 8% in torque.

If you are above 14:1 compression, your gains over gas will likely be smaller.

June 27, 2018, 10:00 AM

Luvtruck

quote:
Originally posted by mavman:
quote:
Originally posted by Luvtruck:
quote:
Originally posted by mavman:
Been down this road. '85 Mustang coupe, cell in rear. 306" SBF 7.00 on gas. Went to a methanol carb, no other changes. The pump was a big BG pump as the car was purchased set up for a big nitrous shot. Ran fine. 6.80 on methanol. Destroyed the engine and stuck my backup 408 in it. Too lean. Would barely run the full 1/8 mile without falling on it's face. Tried an even bigger Magnafuel pump, 1/2" lines, 704 holley regulator. Wasn't any better. One of the locals said to try a cell in the front and I did--using the same old BG pump, and the car picked up 5 tenths and 11 mph in the 1/8. From 6.80/99 the week before to 6.28/110. Later on we put a used toilet system on it and picked it up another tenth and a mph or so. From that point on, I've decided to ditch the rear cell. Well actually I haven't. On my main race car, I left the rear cell and put a 3 gal cell in the front. I use the rear one for primer plus system/idle on gas.

Try the carb/reg/rear cell and see if it works for you. If it doesn't, you'll probably want to invest in a front mounted cell.

Then you didn't have the pump pressure adjusted high enough because I have the Mallory 250 on my truck with the cell in the back and 60' 1.19 and 5.60's with a 436sbc with no issues.

Heard that many times. Tried everything from 4 psi to 15 psi; with very little difference. I'm not the only one with this complaint, either. Many have tried it and many have failed, and some have been able to make it work just fine.

You tried 4-15psi at the pump?
I have mine set at 20 and it maintains going down the track.
I first had a Holley Black and it wouldn't keep up...nosed over just after mid track.

June 27, 2018, 10:18 AM

TOP38

I haven't read all of this tread but a rear cell can be used! Don't blame the rear cell if you have other issues that need to be addressed. Obviously the more HP you run the more attention the fuel system will require which also includes the carb! A high HP single carb on alky is the toughest combo to feed! A front mount cell with a belt drive pump is easy but a rear cell with and electric pump can also work. Once you have a good fuel pump, regulator and plumbing it comes down to the needle a seat in the carb! That is usually the restriction in the system. The belt drive setups fix this with pressure!, low at idle and high during the run. A vacuum assist fuel pressure regulator can do the same. Regulators without vac assist, it boils down to the needle and seat, higher HP combos need larger N&S and eventually if HP is high enough, two N&S's per bowl.

So do your homework as both front and rear cell deals will work.

June 27, 2018, 09:44 PM

mavman

quote:
Originally posted by Luvtruck:
quote:
Originally posted by mavman:
quote:
Originally posted by Luvtruck:
quote:
Originally posted by mavman:
Been down this road. '85 Mustang coupe, cell in rear. 306" SBF 7.00 on gas. Went to a methanol carb, no other changes. The pump was a big BG pump as the car was purchased set up for a big nitrous shot. Ran fine. 6.80 on methanol. Destroyed the engine and stuck my backup 408 in it. Too lean. Would barely run the full 1/8 mile without falling on it's face. Tried an even bigger Magnafuel pump, 1/2" lines, 704 holley regulator. Wasn't any better. One of the locals said to try a cell in the front and I did--using the same old BG pump, and the car picked up 5 tenths and 11 mph in the 1/8. From 6.80/99 the week before to 6.28/110. Later on we put a used toilet system on it and picked it up another tenth and a mph or so. From that point on, I've decided to ditch the rear cell. Well actually I haven't. On my main race car, I left the rear cell and put a 3 gal cell in the front. I use the rear one for primer plus system/idle on gas.

Try the carb/reg/rear cell and see if it works for you. If it doesn't, you'll probably want to invest in a front mounted cell.

Then you didn't have the pump pressure adjusted high enough because I have the Mallory 250 on my truck with the cell in the back and 60' 1.19 and 5.60's with a 436sbc with no issues.

Heard that many times. Tried everything from 4 psi to 15 psi; with very little difference. I'm not the only one with this complaint, either. Many have tried it and many have failed, and some have been able to make it work just fine.

You tried 4-15psi at the pump?
I have mine set at 20 and it maintains going down the track.
I first had a Holley Black and it wouldn't keep up...nosed over just after mid track.

At the regulator. As mentioned, it's likely that I had a separate issue somewhere else. Return system. I never measured pump pressure and probably should have. Just measured the pressure in the log. Lot of us out here have had same issues but we never figured them out and went to a front cell and pump to solve it.

June 28, 2018, 04:46 AM

Robbie Welch

Lenny the numbers say I have right at 13-1. We where hoping for a bit more.

June 28, 2018, 09:50 AM

Lenny5160

quote:
Originally posted by Robbie Welch:
Lenny the numbers say I have right at 13-1. We where hoping for a bit more.

You say you are looking for two tenths. I think you'll be pleased with what you get.

June 28, 2018, 10:20 AM

TomR

When I made the switch (back in 95) I picked up .7 in the 1/4. I was running a rear cell with 1/2 line with a Mallory 150 pump and reg. I went with a front cell, Edelbrock block mounted pump and electric bypass solenoid. Went from 11.30's to 10.60's in good air.

I latter found out my Holley 750 dp was only working on 3 barrels, one of the front boosters wasn't drilled all the way thru. No wonder I had so much trouble tuning it on gas.

Most people are hesitant to try alcohol, once they do, they rarely go back to gas. (just my opinion here)

June 28, 2018, 02:49 PM

Iforgot

quote:
Originally posted by Robbie Welch:
(Iforgot) how much ET did you pick up? What comb where you running before the switch?

3700 pound 69 Chevelle, 10.5:1 496 mild solid roller with Dart iron heads. In bad summer (south ms, HOT and HUMID!) air picked up around.08 in 60’, about .2 1/8th mile over gas. Just did the alky swap this year and only have 1 race on it so far. Mines still a tad lean, and I shift it at only 6300. Leave at 4200, converter flashes to 5400. My normal summertime gas tuneup would go 6.90s@100, 1.55-1.52 60’.. so far on alky, it’s went 6.77@102, 1.45 60’.
There’s more in it still, it’s a tad lean and I haven’t played with shift point or timing (36 right now)..