I was hoping to race 2 events the end of Nov. with 7 separate races between the 2. Then the plan was to pull the motor for time changes on crankshaft/rods & freshening. Well, the plans got changed when I was removing power to my Holley Sniper TBI EFI system. To keep it short, I fried/cooked the ecu in the system. Holley no longer supports the system.

I purchased a Holley Terminator X Stealth TBI EFI system. I've been busy transferring my old tune over to the new system. Somewhat of a pain to do but making progress. I also have to change over the old injectors (8) 120 lb. to replace the new systems injectors (8) 100 lb. This will help with the transfer of the tune. The new throttle body does have 950 cfm rated flow vs. the old 900 cfm throttle body. Other than that, I have a lot more choices on what I can do over the old system.

I have one of my sons coming to remove the old system wiring & install the new system wiring. The new system is compatible with the old system ignition set-up with a simple adapter harness.

The motor is out & has about 250 trouble free passes on it since we configured it for the ProCharger. We are doing the time changes/freshening & will evaluate the durability of the amount of runs on the engine. I'm hoping to get about 500 passes after this freshen up, but that will be based on the evaluation.

The new crankshaft is getting a BBC snout/post vs. the old being SBC. The new rods are going to be boost specific specs vs. the standard H-beams we had in it. We are going to time change the valves with the same that Brodix assembled the heads with new.

While we are down, we are going to change the rear gearing to a 3.70 from a 3.89 to knock a little over 300 rpm out of it on the big end. Still debating on loosening the converter, it stalls between 5500-5600. I would like it around 6000. I'm not sure how much the gear change will affect the stall, maybe 100-200 rpm?

Information note: The Moroso solid motor mounts are junk after 250 runs, they have cracks & are distorted badly! We have new ones ordered & going to weld in a doubler plate. We are also looking to add a torque limiter of some type to the frame rail.

All this conversation about changes & my one boy tells me I need to get a F...ing parachute on the car. I have been cutting it close with running 149 mph on the big end ripping the throttle (the closest being 149.89). I know I need to but don't have the time to get it done. We need to be up & racing for the start of the season in Jan.

2BKING

good plans and improvements,if those mounts are as you say, is the frame twist causing this.

quote:

Originally posted by rusty:
good plans and improvements,if those mounts are as you say, is the frame twist causing this.

As you know the motor is trying to twist counterclockwise. As for visible twist of the frame it's not noticeable in pics & the front tires pic up evenly. We do have some issues with the car going right when the wheelies are excessive in height. Pics/video doesn't show visibly the car squatting over on the right rear. I'm sure it's taking some weight off the right rear tire. We do have an anti-rollbar kit for the car, but it's not installed yet. Pretty sure that will solve the issue.

When the new engine side mounts get here, I'll try to post up comparison pics with the old mounts. The frame side mounts look good.

I have no plans to make the car quicker for my normal bracket racing. I'm sure I'm already on the edge with my chassis as is. I actually think I need to pull some power out. The car is competitive at this level, but it's still shy of its competitive level when it was naturally aspirated!

Below is the new EFI system.



2BKING

Could also have went HP or Dominator (my choice) with TBI Stealth. It’s listed in the fuel type drop down menus for V6.

quote:

Originally posted by markemark:
Could also have went HP or Dominator (my choice) with TBI Stealth. It’s listed in the fuel type drop down menus for V6.

M&M,

I have bells and whistles on my old Sniper system I wasn't using. The Terminator X has a good many more bells & whistles that I probably will not be using. I couldn't even imagine using an HP or Dominator, bells & whistles!

I had to upgrade the EFI system for support. The Terminator X more than meets my needs or wants for tuning & the safety features needed for the boost.

I'm an old school tuner trying to adapt over to the technology of EFI. I always appreciate you looking out for me & taking interest in my EFI adventures!

2BKING

quote:

Originally posted by B KING:
I purchased a Holley Terminator X Stealth TBI EFI system. I've been busy transferring my old tune over to the new system. Somewhat of a pain to do but making progress. I also have to change over the old injectors (8) 120 lb. to replace the new systems injectors (8) 100 lb. This will help with the transfer of the tune. The new throttle body does have 950 cfm rated flow vs. the old 900 cfm throttle body. Other than that, I have a lot more choices on what I can do over the old system.

I decided to change over the injectors today. I found one injector connection not seated & another partially seated. This was a known problem with my old Sniper system.

I was happy to see the new system had different connections, a more positive way to seat & locate the pins!

2BKING

Although I posed the question online about Terminator X vs HP to see if I missed anything, prior to this I downloaded V3 and had a good look at it. I agree with this post from Joe Simpson who’s done many ecu videos. “HP is better in every way other than price. Better o2, internal logging, better hardware, better software.”

If you’re using V3, V6 looks very much the same on a laptop. The increased ecu price is very small imho for what you’re getting.

I would suggest looking at 12-1 crank timing, even if it’s just to look. I would have used 12-1, but my system ignition is controlled by Grid presently not ecu. 12-1 is more accurate than 1 pulse.

quote:

Originally posted by markemark:
Although I posed the question online about Terminator X vs HP to see if I missed anything, prior to this I downloaded V3 and had a good look at it. I agree with this post from Joe Simpson who’s done many ecu videos. “HP is better in every way other than price. Better o2, internal logging, better hardware, better software.”

If you’re using V3, V6 looks very much the same on a laptop. The increased ecu price is very small imho for what you’re getting.

I've been building up my Dominator profile in V6. ECU is on my filing cabinet, doing as much research as I can and doing the "hard" work before dropping coin on harnesses. Pretty much going to strip every factory wire off the chassis except for lighting and the power windows/locks/AC system because the Dominator replaces/replicates so many functions. Drawing out all the harness connections before I buy/build it all will hopefully take alot of "oh craps" out of the picture at implementation time.

I will agree that TBI is "old skool" in the EFI world...Port injection should have much better response, and EV6/USCAR is much better than EV1 connectors IMO. I'm setting up for the 58x crank pickup (LSx style) and 1x cam pickup (factory chrysler style) with my Dominator. Termx I can definitely see as being a "simpler" install, but alot of the harnesses don't transfer over if you upgrade to a HP or Dom box.

The only Qualm I don't like is that Holley says to wire directly to the battery for all of their ECUs, going around the master kill switch. I understand the "why" but don't agree with the practicality or how NHRA would feel about an always-on ECU.

Brian, how did you end up killing the TBI ECU? Put 12 volts on a 5 volt wire?

^^^^^ Read the NHRA rule for Master Cutoff. Says nothing about removing all electrical power at the battery. It says “must stop all electrical functions”. My relay board power that controls all electrical functions is wired directly to the Master Cutoff. Grid, Holley HP, Holley ProDash, starter and alternator to battery on my car…. Legal.

quote:

Originally posted by markemark:
^^^^^ Read the NHRA rule for Master Cutoff. Says nothing about removing all electrical power at the battery. It says “must stop all electrical functions”. My relay board power that controls all electrical functions is wired directly to the Master Cutoff. Grid, Holley HP, Holley ProDash, starter and alternator to battery on my car…. Legal.

That's where it could come down to interpretation and not being dumb. IFF somebody followed the Holley diagram to a 'T' and wired the fuel pump and injectors through the Holley Relays that say "to battery", then the fuel system could be active even if the master turned off if the fuel pump relay welded itself together or if somebody was just dumb and used that "convenient" 12 volt wire to feed the ignition switch.

It requires some intuition that "To battery" can mean both "to battery" and "to master cutoff". Being oriented to street cars, Holley forgets that note and I could see (*Have seen) somebody make that oops.

Part of Rocky Mountain Race Week's tech inspection is that they throw the switch while the vehicle is running. If both the engine AND dash shuts off, you get your sticker. If the engine shuts off and dash doesn't, you get sent back. If the engine shuts off but fuel pump stays on, you get sent back. Matt and his team have seen corners get cut, so they are pretty thorough. 2023 they were crawling under cars to check loops & looking for fuel cell grounding.

My truck gets teched harder at RMRW than we ever did at a divisional/national TD race. A couple friends that run sst/SC/SG say the same thing.

I will try to address my views on your guy's suggestions, pokes, knowledge, questions & views on this discussion!

I'm using the V3 software & thought I read that I can use the V software up to V6.

Joe Simpson seems like one of the smarter tuners & I follow him. I purchased his Tune the Trilogy video tutorials. I'm only on or around the 40th video. I'm liking the information so far!

As for TBI, people question me all the time about why I use it. It works for my needs & I'm very competitive with it. Could port injection improve my game maybe...maybe not. I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Seeing my boosted combo draws a good amount of hot under hood & with only water/methanol injection pre-supercharger. I chose to get the additional cooling of the blow through TBI. I run 100 UL pump gas, if I was using E85 or methanol I would consider port injection. We race in Las Vegas during the day we see air temps of 100* +. I don't know the under-hood temps, but I need all the help with IAT cooling I can get with the combination of parts I chose to use.

I have my ECU power & ground direct to the battery per Holley instructions. When the master switch is off it kills the motor, the switch panel & the fuel pump(s). I don't understand why but it does. It might have something to do with my Digital Delay switch panel with a fuel pump safety.

I think I covered everything in my 1st paragraph the best I could. If you guys have more, send them to this technology challenged racer!

2BKING

I've mangled a couple of those driver side Moroso engine mounts over the years. I had to weld a couple of pieces on it to stop it from folding.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnethead: tech inspection is that they throw the switch while the vehicle is running. If both the engine AND dash shuts off, you get your sticker. If the engine shuts off and dash doesn't, you get sent back.

Although you have battery power going to a device, doesn’t make it active until it receives the +12v ON signal.

My dash and ecu power are to the battery +12v with the Dash ON signal wired to the Fused Battery terminal on the relay board and ecu ON to the Ignition ON board terminal. With Master Cutoff ON, dash display On. Master OFF, dash display OFF. ECU can’t receive ON signal with Master Cutoff OFF.

Here's another reason I want main power to my ECU not to be part of the Master Cutoff. At the beginning of the day I set the clock in the ECU. When it starts logging runs, it date/time stamps them. They line up with the et slips time stamp. Removing power to the ecu sets the date/time to 0.

NOTHING in my car will activate without the relay board having main power to it from the Master Cutoff.

I have the Terminator X installed in the car & bench tested. I had to do a firmware update to my digital screen.

I have to thank EFI System Pro for their support with all my questions. This was the main reason I purchased this system from them.

Now, all I need is my engine to test the launch limiter & tune.

2BKING

quote:

Originally posted by Goob:
I've mangled a couple of those driver side Moroso engine mounts over the years. I had to weld a couple of pieces on it to stop it from folding.

Just imagine how much the poor block gets twisted out of shape......Torque strap or motor plate...these aren't grocery getters anymore

Parachute: Get it. USE It.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Koehler:
Parachute: Get it. USE It.

The defacto truth is to "drive into" the chute every run.....In the heat of battle/going rounds it just isn't going to happen for us bracket guys....A person can get extra lazy about it at an uphill shutdown like Vegas...you pull the chute there you have to re-start to get off the track

Shutdown isn't the only use for a chute.
They work at slower speeds also.
Say you get crossed up and the little voice says you are not sure which way is up. The chute will slow you down and pull you straight a lot of the time.
Train yourself to memory muscle the chute location.

Oh, and brakes never fail.