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How many runs before rebuild?
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DRR Sportsman
posted
I have a relatively mild 468. How many runs can I safely put on it before a freshen up? When I bought it last year I looked at the mains and they looked relatively new. No material in the filter after the last oil change.

Guy before me claimed 80 runs max. I might have another 80 on it from last season. Main concern is this year I plan on racing a bunch (54 races pending rainouts right now). I don't really want it through the full season if I don't have too.

Looking for some input on how many runs I can expect out of this motor before I put in a new short block and take this one out to freshen.

468 in 3000 lb car. Leave at 3400, shift at 6800. 670 lift cam. Ohio Crank, Lunati Rods, JE pistons. 2 bolt main GM block
 
Posts: 664 | Location: UTD | Registered: September 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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I have a 6.0 Nova with a 468. I change the oil regularly but do rebuilds after about 3 seasons.


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Bob Payton
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309Z, 393, 3093, 8X93


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Posts: 1987 | Location: Michigan | Registered: November 14, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Da Shoe
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I ran a 468 for about 15 years/ Had it freshened 2 times in those 15 years and each time the bearings looked like new (still changed them). Probably had 300 to 400 runs on it at each freshen. This was a mild 468, steel block steel heads shifting at 6800 to 7000, mild cam. 9.60 motor on good day and 9.80 in heat, on gas in a 2800lb back half car.
 
Posts: 608 | Location: Da Swamp!!!! | Registered: October 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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quote:
Originally posted by Da Shoe:
I ran a 468 for about 15 years/ Had it freshened 2 times in those 15 years and each time the bearings looked like new (still changed them). Probably had 300 to 400 runs on it at each freshen. This was a mild 468, steel block steel heads shifting at 6800 to 7000, mild cam. 9.60 motor on good day and 9.80 in heat, on gas in a 2800lb back half car.


This is pretty much exactly what I have High 6.0's to low teens. Just on Alky and a little heavier. I change the oil every 25 runs max
 
Posts: 664 | Location: UTD | Registered: September 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Mike Nitzsche
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Last year was my 8th season on my 406. It's methanol injected. I plan on getting two more seasons out of it. It still prints time slips. It was 5.61 in my Cobalt and it runs 5.58 in my roadster. I have 4 seasons on my 582 which sees 8K twice per pass and my engine guy tells me it's still real early to freshen that. I only race 5-8 weekends a year now days though.
 
Posts: 1364 | Location: Lansing,Mi | Registered: March 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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I ran a 468 bbc in my former Chevelle from 1999 (10.4:1, hydraulic cam, 500+HP) through 2007 (11:1, roller cam, 700+HP) that was built by SCDIV1 aka Rich and freshened by Rich typically every other season after about 300 passes.



This message has been edited. Last edited by: 1320racer,
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
Picture of adv ET 266
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One size does not fit all. Parts and build attention to detail, is the deciding factor. It doesn’t matter one bit how long mine went. Take it apart, as suggested by the builder, and access the parts used.



2005 2000lb 4 link dragster
home brew 582 BBC Dart 355
1.058
2.98
4.629@149
6.094
7.310@185

 
Posts: 12149 | Location: 33463 | Registered: February 04, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Elite
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Agreed 100%
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
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quote:
Originally posted by Holytown:
I have a relatively mild 468. How many runs can I safely put on it before a freshen up? When I bought it last year I looked at the mains and they looked relatively new. No material in the filter after the last oil change.

Guy before me claimed 80 runs max. I might have another 80 on it from last season. Main concern is this year I plan on racing a bunch (54 races pending rainouts right now). I don't really want it through the full season if I don't have too.

Looking for some input on how many runs I can expect out of this motor before I put in a new short block and take this one out to freshen.

468 in 3000 lb car. Leave at 3400, shift at 6800. 670 lift cam. Ohio Crank, Lunati Rods, JE pistons. 2 bolt main GM block


Sounds pretty decent besides the china crank. I had a 468 w/ GM black crank in my Nova, w/ Lunati Pro Mod rods.

Put a System One oil filter on it ya gotta clean every oil change. It'll take the guess out of it. As long as it leaks down good and the filter always looks good, you're good.

In the mean time look around for a GM black crank, soon as the china crank starts wobbling, you'll be ready to make it perfect, with one that'll never wear out - wobble. Keep a close eye on the filter for Evidence.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
quote:
Originally posted by Holytown:
I have a relatively mild 468. How many runs can I safely put on it before a freshen up? When I bought it last year I looked at the mains and they looked relatively new. No material in the filter after the last oil change.

Guy before me claimed 80 runs max. I might have another 80 on it from last season. Main concern is this year I plan on racing a bunch (54 races pending rainouts right now). I don't really want it through the full season if I don't have too.

Looking for some input on how many runs I can expect out of this motor before I put in a new short block and take this one out to freshen.

468 in 3000 lb car. Leave at 3400, shift at 6800. 670 lift cam. Ohio Crank, Lunati Rods, JE pistons. 2 bolt main GM block


Sounds pretty decent besides the china crank. I had a 468 w/ GM black crank in my Nova, w/ Lunati Pro Mod rods.

Put a System One oil filter on it ya gotta clean every oil change. It'll take the guess out of it. As long as it leaks down good and the filter always looks good, you're good.

In the mean time look around for a GM black crank, soon as the china crank starts wobbling, you'll be ready to make it perfect, with one that'll never wear out - wobble. Keep a close eye on the filter for Evidence.



I cut the filter at every oil change to check for any evidence. Guess I just need to keep a close eye on that and valve springs and see what happens. If I do any good this season I'd assume the motor will be at around 400-425 runs if it was ran all season. All 1/8 mile though
 
Posts: 664 | Location: UTD | Registered: September 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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54 races WOW! That's pretty awesome right there. Good luck!


BG
 
Posts: 757 | Location: Florence, SC | Registered: August 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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quote:
Originally posted by BG7X77:
54 races WOW! That's pretty awesome right there. Good luck!


I'm sure it will rain out at least 10 of them. Seemed like last year it rained every other day. My yard still has standing water in areas!
 
Posts: 664 | Location: UTD | Registered: September 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Eman
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Pretty basic 355 took it out of a street car when the motor was fresh. I'd venture a guess it's got 1,000 passes or so. I check the valves and change the oil regularly.
 
Posts: 1447 | Location: E TN | Registered: February 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Lenny5160
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80 runs is about 2 really good weekends!

The 468 in my Nova is very similar and historically it would get freshened every-other winter when it was getting double-entered on the 1/4 mile just about every weekend.

It doesn’t see quite so many runs these days so I try to get 3 seasons out of it. Change the oil about every 3-4 race weekends.


Tony Leonard
 
Posts: 3139 | Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN | Registered: March 18, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Trophy
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I always hear people say “freshen” but what exactly are you doing? Bearings? Rings with a quick de-glaze? Valve job? Obviously inspecting all the components but how crazy do you go?


"It better not rain this weekend"
 
Posts: 10 | Location: Chicago | Registered: December 29, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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Freshen = rings, bearings, gaskets, rod bolts, maybe pistons pins, timing belt or chain, hone, valve job, springs and lifters.

Rebuild = all the above plus the rest of the hard parts...valves, rods, pistons and maybe crank and the associated machine work that goes with replacing them.
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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quote:
Originally posted by wine-o1:
I always hear people say “freshen” but what exactly are you doing? Bearings? Rings with a quick de-glaze? Valve job? Obviously inspecting all the components but how crazy do you go?


Tread carefully....Devil's in the details. When someone uses either of those terms it is best to ask EXACTLY what was done. While I mostly agree with previous comment on what those SHOULD entail, the subjective nature of those words should be carefully investigated especially if you're on the buying end of anything.

One guys rebuild is another guys freshen and viceaversa. Much of which may be done out of ignorance moreso than deception. Guy says "it was rebuilt 50 passes ago" I would want a list of what was changed and how many passes/miles were on the components that were not changed.


BG
 
Posts: 757 | Location: Florence, SC | Registered: August 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of CURTIS REED
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quote:
Originally posted by wine-o1:
I always hear people say “freshen” but what exactly are you doing? Bearings? Rings with a quick de-glaze? Valve job? Obviously inspecting all the components but how crazy do you go?


I believe the people doing all their own work will have a different idea of what a freshen is also. I do all my own work even setting up my heads so I have all the spring data and keep an eye on pressures. It wouldn't bother me to change one or all in the middle of the season if needed so it also wouldn't bother me to run 3 years if they all checked good. That is just an example as to why I say it's different for everyone.

If you are having someone do the work for you then they are going to change what needs to be changed to protect their reputation and your engine as they should be expected to.

I usually have mine out every other year. 200-300 passes is the norm for me.



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Posts: 2900 | Location: KIEFER, OK. | Registered: August 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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quote:
Originally posted by BG7X77:
Guy says "it was rebuilt 50 passes ago" I would want a list of what was changed and how many passes/miles were on the components that were not changed.


Yep, it’s “fresh” 50 runs ago. Rings, bearings, and lifters. All the other parts have 2000 runs on them. Big Grin

IMO, buying a used engine is playing with fire. It’s not worth the little bit you might save when you buy someone’s old wore out shyt and it kicks a rod in 10 passes.
 
Posts: 709 | Location: Upstate NY | Registered: July 02, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Lenny5160
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quote:
Originally posted by 1320racer:
Freshen = rings, bearings, gaskets, rod bolts, maybe pistons pins, timing belt or chain, hone, valve job, springs and lifters.

Rebuild = all the above plus the rest of the hard parts...valves, rods, pistons and maybe crank and the associated machine work that goes with replacing them.


This “freshen” list is what I do when an otherwise healthy engine comes out, along with oil pump and distributor gear.

Any other hard parts that have reached the end of life or whatever are changed as needed, but I don’t use a different term for it.


Tony Leonard
 
Posts: 3139 | Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN | Registered: March 18, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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