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Nitrous with alky
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Picture of Cmichael
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I've been kicking the idea around on upping the hp on my nitrous system. Its a bracket car and I use this for finish line only. I've been spraying 175 dry. Looking to spray 300. Engine is a sbc on alcohol. I figure I will need to pull timing and add fuel at this level. Has anyone had good luck with using alcohol as fuel enrichment? If so.. what maintenance is involved? My main concern is plugging up the small holes in the spray bar with the white stuff on the fuel side. Thanks Cody


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Posts: 155 | Location: Iola,KS | Registered: October 23, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Cmichael:
I've been kicking the idea around on upping the hp on my nitrous system. Its a bracket car and I use this for finish line only. I've been spraying 175 dry. Looking to spray 300. Engine is a sbc on alcohol. I figure I will need to pull timing and add fuel at this level. Has anyone had good luck with using alcohol as fuel enrichment? If so.. what maintenance is involved? My main concern is plugging up the small holes in the spray bar with the white stuff on the fuel side. Thanks Cody


When I ran a nitrous override Super Pro bracket racing methanol carb , I had a separate one gallon tank for gasoline injection using a NOS cheater plate, even like that I'd service the plate with WD40 after each race, by pulling the lines off the plate hitting it with air after oiling the spray bars with WD40.

With that being said, sure you can T off the fuel line and inject methanol with nitrous. Pull 4-5 degrees per 100hp and 1.5 times the fuel pressure 9 - 10 psi or 40 - 50% more fuel if you'd rather verify it that way, visually before use.

Usually we make a 1/2 track checkout run, look at the plugs.

Big window for tuning methanol and nitrous, initial runs most likely won't result in full potential, dependent on current methanol carb tune and timing.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So he states he wants to fun the juice on top of track and you tell him to make half passes and check out sorry but how is it going to give him results to tune with looking to understand
 
Posts: 386 | Location: Natick MA | Registered: November 15, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Cmichael:
I've been kicking the idea around on upping the hp on my nitrous system. Its a bracket car and I use this for finish line only. I've been spraying 175 dry. Looking to spray 300. Engine is a sbc on alcohol. I figure I will need to pull timing and add fuel at this level. Has anyone had good luck with using alcohol as fuel enrichment? If so.. what maintenance is involved? My main concern is plugging up the small holes in the spray bar with the white stuff on the fuel side. Thanks Cody


Way back when we ran Bonneville Salt Flats. We ran a fuel class with a 67 Camaro. The motor was on methanol & we added nitrous. After talking with NOS, they recommended using race gas as the enrichment fuel. Their perspective was it would over cool the motor & make less hp if using alky as the enrichment fuel. We ended up adding a small cell for gas enrichment.


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Posts: 2463 | Location: NV. | Registered: October 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Lots has changed over the years with nitrous systems and fuel choices. There are a lot of people out there now that are spraying nitrous using alky as enrichment fuel. I converted my dragster to alky and will be using alky for enrichment on the nitrous system as well. NX systems are about the best when it comes to that, and Induction Solutions. Steve at Induction Solutions can set you up with a flowed system as well. I have not sprayed since my conversion, but bottle is getting turned on next season.

Is alky the best fuel for enrichment with nitrous? I've done a lot of research on it and there is more misinformation out there than information. No, it's not as popular. If you're going to spray multiple stages, I'll agree gas is better for that. But for a single stage, smaller shot, go for it. Lots more people doing that than I would have thought.

Couple of things to think of though. Engine temp will be more of a player. Alky likes heat because it's harder to vaporize than gas, so take that into consideration when you add nitrous to the mix. Better have a good ignition system too. Alky is harder to ignite than gas, and again, adding nitrous to the mix and lowering the temp even more is going to need something capable of lighting it off. If you're running an MSD 6, you're going to have issues. Just doesn't produce a hot enough spark for reliable ignition. You'll need to step up quite a bit....

But yes, you can do it, there is a wide tuning window, much wider than gas, and less chance of detonation.


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Posts: 1464 | Location: Back home in Alaska! | Registered: February 13, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You can run smaller system with alky/nitrous. If you try to run too much the A/F is too cold when entering the combustion chamber since both alky and nitrous have a cooling effect. Thats what I heave been told.

I think with 300 shot you might be better with gas as enrichment fuel. Plus side is there are a million gas/nitrous tune ups and about 1000th of that for alky/nitrous.




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Posts: 4156 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I raced a full season with alky and nitrous. NX system on a 565 with Rons Terminator. It worked okay, I could go from 4.70 to 4.50;with a 200 shot on for 3 secs in a dragster. For me it became more of a PITA then anything else. Also had occasional issues with NOS solenoid opening late and engine going dead fat for a split sec, makes it hard to turn on win lights when that happens.
 
Posts: 2388 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Big Steve, did you figure out why the solenoid opened late? What your talking about is a concern for me.


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Posts: 155 | Location: Iola,KS | Registered: October 23, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Cmichael:
Big Steve, did you figure out why the solenoid opened late? What your talking about is a concern for me.


Bluestreak Ford starter solenoid as a relay, will fix that right up.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Cmichael:
Big Steve, did you figure out why the solenoid opened late? What your talking about is a concern for me.

No, I would take the solenoid apart, find nothing wrong and it would be fine. Just one of those intermittent things that can happen with nitrous I guess. Were talking like .500 late after the fuel solenoid would open. They say the NOS solenoid can stick if you get the pressure too high, but that wasn't the case, I would always try and keep the bottle at 900 psi or so

It was fun to play with and I can see how it could be addictive, just wasn't my thing. Blower is way more fun!!
 
Posts: 2388 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Mike, does the ford solenoid carry the amperage better than a standard relay?


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Posts: 155 | Location: Iola,KS | Registered: October 23, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Cmichael:
Mike, does the ford solenoid carry the amperage better than a standard relay?


There could be better way by now. It's an inexpensive old school approach, how I did it.

We saw a lot of the IHRA Pro Modifieds, back in the glory days of IHRA pro modified had em, when they raced Bradenton.

I'm not sure how they're doing it on this DXP Street radial tire car I did the engine & transmission. I do know whatever it is on the car, has the capacity to turn on several systems. I'd imagine it does it as well as a Bluestreak Ford starter solenoid, as a relay, at a price.

If you're speaking of a Bosch relay, the answer is yes. I saw a lot of intermittent problems on friends/customers cars Bosch relay. We'd switch em out and they'd do huge wheelstands first lick typically.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Rietow,
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Have been running alky with alky enrichment for about 14 years. Helped develop what is out there today. have tested everything from 5lbs of fuel pressure to 13lbs, zero to 5 degrees of timing. I will say most engines will not benifit from anything over 300hp on a bracket-style combination.
Between my brother and I we have won 2 TD and one TS championship using alky for both. you just need to know what your setup for an understand that everything you get is WAY safe. I pull very little timing. Most people don't understand the octane rating of Alky and teh burn rate compared to gas. The BTU's that it actually provides is also relative, that is why you can get so much more out of a little shot on alky than you do the same shot on gas. Are you ever going to spray 600 on alky, probably not. Let me know if there is anything I can help you with. I have been with Nitrous Express for over 13 years and have one a lot of money using their systems in bracket and ET modes, even some heads up stuff.

Mike, we pulled 1 degree per 100hp and we ran pretty optimal but we also had a lot different jet map that what came in the kit. We were actually a lot leaner than what was in the map. This was running off a belt drive pump at 11lbs at wide open throttle. Finish line with a 250 hit in it ZERO timing taken out. And I would pick up .015 and 3mph in the lights on a 4.70 dragster.

Big Steve got his system and It worked rather well and surprised him with what he did vs others. i will let him chime in.


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Posts: 2497 | Location: Gilmer, Texas | Registered: June 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by The Bozman:
Have been running alky with alky enrichment for about 14 years. Helped develop what is out there today. have tested everything from 5lbs of fuel pressure to 13lbs, zero to 5 degrees of timing. I will say most engines will not benifit from anything over 300hp on a bracket-style combination.
Between my brother and I we have won 2 TD and one TS championship using alky for both. you just need to know what your setup for an understand that everything you get is WAY safe. I pull very little timing. Most people don't understand the octane rating of Alky and teh burn rate compared to gas. The BTU's that it actually provides is also relative, that is why you can get so much more out of a little shot on alky than you do the same shot on gas. Are you ever going to spray 600 on alky, probably not. Let me know if there is anything I can help you with. I have been with Nitrous Express for over 13 years and have one a lot of money using their systems in bracket and ET modes, even some heads up stuff.

Mike, we pulled 1 degree per 100hp and we ran pretty optimal but we also had a lot different jet map that what came in the kit. We were actually a lot leaner than what was in the map. This was running off a belt drive pump at 11lbs at wide open throttle. Finish line with a 250 hit in it ZERO timing taken out. And I would pick up .015 and 3mph in the lights on a 4.70 dragster.

Big Steve got his system and It worked rather well and surprised him with what he did vs others. i will let him chime in.


I believe it. I never pulled any timing either, but then again I'd run the base timing 28 - 30 degrees 427 BBC methanol Bo laws carb. I'm a little hesitant to suggest that approach in type on the net though, but I can dig it. I've never run any timing methanol, in comparison to what I hear in here though, so that changes things for the next guy, who feels he has his car running well, as is.

My 23 427 sb I run 30 - 31.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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