Dragster oil pan recommendation

January 29, 2020, 10:43 AM

183N

quote:
Originally posted by Mopar Traitor:
I've asked before and never understood. Trying to figure out how an extra quart of oil hurts, know it does, heard too many storied of stocker draining oil to go faster but with the engine at rpm and all the oil traveling thru the engine and in the top end, with 7 quarts it does not seem like much would be in the bottom of pan...

I don’t have an answer but I can tell you my Stef’s aluminum pan is very sensitive to oil level. It holds 6 quarts (plus filter) and if I get a 1/2 high it slows up .05 and 3 - 4 mph in the quarter. If it’s 1/2 quart low the oil pressure in the shutdown area is noticeably lower.

Like you said I would think there wouldn’t be enough oil for the crank to swim in by the end of the run but the mph drop tells the tale.

We had Stef’s weld in a sight glass when we ordered the pan which really helps determine proper oil level. The Moroso 21049 pan is not sensitive to oil level like the Stef’s pan is.

January 29, 2020, 07:31 PM

TD3550

If you do decide to do the 21049.What i have always done is put a dab of red. "Film" on the windage tray screws. It just give me a better piece of mind. That's just me.

February 07, 2020, 11:38 PM

greywolf

I upgraded to a moroso 21600, nice pan, holds steady oil pressure.

February 08, 2020, 07:29 AM

RPROGAS

Question for you folks running the 427ASK Olsen pan in a TD. What weight oil are you using and how much pressure is your Race Pak recording while staging and at the end of a run?

I apologize for so many questions (JR) but I have a reason.

Thanks:
Bob

February 08, 2020, 10:46 PM

seabass

50 wt for me

usually around 60 staging and 80-90 at the end

February 09, 2020, 08:59 AM

RPROGAS

Thanks JR (again)!

Houston we have two problems/issues.

Problem #1

85# staging, 120-125# at the end with 60 weight. I believe that we have a bi-pass issue with the Moroso billet pump.

Problem #2

The bigger issue is that it completely loses oil pressure at the end of the burn-out, that happened all three time runs at Pomona this weekend. Mike aborted every run, obviously didn't make the field. The weekend prior he made two runs at Fontana, everything worked great. got to Pomona and had to abort every run.

Tried the original pan, same results. Found the problem but not the answer. Something is driving the distributor upward causing it to dis-engage from the intermediate shaft. Lowered the distributor (slip collar) but after one burn-out it was forced upward, again losing oil pressure, (marked the distributor with a felt marker pen).

Same issue last year at Vegas in the forth round, completed the burn-out, zero oil pressure. Killed the bearings, crank, five pistons and three rods. All new pieces including a gear drive, same results and before you ask, no the 8BBB restrictor plugs were installed correctly, in the front oil galleys.

This is getting frustrating, and dang expensive.

February 09, 2020, 09:15 AM

Alaskaracer

quote:
Originally posted by RPROGAS:
Tried the original pan, same results. Found the problem but not the answer. Something is driving the distributor upward causing it to dis-engage from the intermediate shaft. Lowered the distributor (slip collar) but after one burn-out it was forced upward, again losing oil pressure, (marked the distributor with a felt marker pen).

Same issue last year at Vegas in the forth round, completed the burn-out, zero oil pressure. Killed the bearings, crank, five pistons and three rods. All new pieces including a gear drive, same results and before you ask, no the 8BBB restrictor plugs were installed correctly, in the front oil galleys.

This is getting frustrating, and dang expensive.

Wow! That is pretty crazy, never seen that happen before? What's it doing to the drive gear on the dizzy? At that point, I'd at least consider either an external belt driven oil pump or a dry sump setup....after all the issues and money spent trying to fix them, either could have been purchased and solved that issue... I never thought I'd run a dry sump until I did.....

What clamp are you using to hold the dizzy down? I know Moroso has a big billet one that clamps all the way around the shaft....this might help. Here's the link:

https://www.moroso.com/billet-...utor-hold-down26215/

Definitely a serious issue. Hope you get it worked out....

February 09, 2020, 01:12 PM

RPROGAS

The distributor is a MSD, no matter how tight the camp is secured on the distributor base is slips. Same block, same camshaft, same oil pan and pump, same distributor that were used for years without a problem.....however the intake was changed. Before you ask, that had no influence on the problem, it was used for several months without any problems.

The only real change was when the cam bolts sheared last year so the face of the cam had to be machined flat. Just prior to Indy the timing change broke and the face of the cam was machined (a second time) and a gear drive was installed. I am beginning to believe that machining the cam face twice may be the cause of the problem, it brought the cam forward in the block and possibly changed the relationship between the cam and the distributor drive gear. Note: the cam lobes are however centered on the lifter bores.

The next change may have to be a new camshaft. This is getting crazy. I have never encountered anything like this.

Bob

February 09, 2020, 03:25 PM

TD3550

Just curious. What was the initial end play at the start AND what button? The bypass in these Moroso billet pumps return oil back to the pickup area.
Really sounds like it has cam walk. Every time the cam was shaved, Did you remeasure? Was the face side of the block in back of the torrington bearing hurt? I would be real curious on the bolt shear. Also when you have time, take a measurement of the lock collar bolted together.
ID side VS the OD side of the shaft. In most cases the end/s wont touch when clamped. For sure i would be looking at another cam since it was shaved twice. JMO... The cam shows no signs of scuff? I know in years, i have always checked the depth of the threaded cam bolt holes and had to shave the bolts due to short blind holes. Therefore where after it's torqued,the bolts are not tight.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TD3550,

February 10, 2020, 07:06 AM

RPROGAS

TD3550 I sent you a PM.

Thanks for the input, especially the question about the distributor shaft dimensions.

Bob

February 10, 2020, 10:41 AM

greywolf

SX 66,
did you get the answers you were looking for??

February 10, 2020, 11:08 AM

S/C718

All, if anyone is interested I have a 2 year old billet fabrication pan and billet Moroso pump for sale. I just pulled them off my 622 because I went to a dry sump system. They are in great condition. I had issues when I lifted in my dragster and when I put this pan on it helped a lot. Let me know if a got you are interested.

Thanks

February 10, 2020, 05:15 PM

SX 66

I went with 21049 pan, it is very nice. Also went with a melling select pump.

February 10, 2020, 05:32 PM

greywolf

quote:
Originally posted by SX 66:
I went with 21049 pan, it is very nice. Also went with a melling select pump.

That was also the pan I was going to run on my 632, but the 21600 came along for $725, and it was new I thought ah, why not.

February 10, 2020, 05:38 PM

183N

quote:
Originally posted by RPROGAS:
Thanks JR (again)!

Houston we have two problems/issues.

Problem #1

85# staging, 120-125# at the end with 60 weight. I believe that we have a bi-pass issue with the Moroso billet pump.

Problem #2

The bigger issue is that it completely loses oil pressure at the end of the burn-out, that happened all three time runs at Pomona this weekend. Mike aborted every run, obviously didn't make the field. The weekend prior he made two runs at Fontana, everything worked great. got to Pomona and had to abort every run.

Tried the original pan, same results. Found the problem but not the answer. Something is driving the distributor upward causing it to dis-engage from the intermediate shaft. Lowered the distributor (slip collar) but after one burn-out it was forced upward, again losing oil pressure, (marked the distributor with a felt marker pen).

Same issue last year at Vegas in the forth round, completed the burn-out, zero oil pressure. Killed the bearings, crank, five pistons and three rods. All new pieces including a gear drive, same results and before you ask, no the 8BBB restrictor plugs were installed correctly, in the front oil galleys.

This is getting frustrating, and dang expensive.

When building my latest engine this year we had everything done and slipped the brand new distributor in place to set the slip collar height. We turned the engine over with the distributor installed and at one point it pushed the distributor out/up. We messed with it a bunch and every time it got to one spot it pushed the distributor out.

Ended up taking the cam out and a visual inspection found some of the teeth on the cam burred/rolled over. Cleaned them up with a Dremel and all was good. This was with a brand new cam but it looked like it literally fell over and hurt some teeth. I know you said same cam but what if it somehow fell and some teeth got damaged while it was disassembled?

February 10, 2020, 06:06 PM

RPROGAS

Pulled the distributor out, teeth on the drive gear were perfect. New distributor (with 2 new "O" rings) going in tomorrow along with a new 22163 Moroso billet (same as the one before). Changed from 60W to 20W50 trying to lower the pressure to a reasonable range, (not 125). Tried the old pan, same results, problem not the pan.

NOTE:
When you pre-prime the engine (old distributor with no drive gear teeth) you have to hold the tool in place (both hands and your chest) or it will push upward enough to disengage the oil pump intermediate shaft. Never had that happen before.

Thanks for the suggestions guys, keep them coming this is a very strange problem.

Bob