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Ron’s injection shutdown issue
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DRR Sportsman
Picture of C Hodge
posted
Ok so a new terminator kit and having a issue in the shutdown and warmup. The first 4 weeks it didn’t have an issue but last week when warming the car I brought it up to 160 and applied the transbrake and brought it up to 3500 to put a little heat in the transmission. After I went back to an idle it sounded funny and wouldn’t rev. Cutting the engine off and refiring it was fine. Come back up to 3500 again on the brake and it did it again. Couldn’t find anything wrong so I made a pass. Ran fine in the burnout and down track but at the turnoff it sounded funny again and wouldn’t rev, again killing the ignition and refiring it revel fine. I called Ron’s tech line and they had me check the vent, return line, o-ring behind the return pill and the poppet valve in the return fitting. All checked to be fine. I went as far as knocking the poppet out of the fitting and still acted the same. The only thing it changed was made it harder to start so I put it back in after a few passes. It does it every pass in the shutdown and warmup only for 2 weekends now. Has anyone else had or seen this issue ? I’ve had barrel valve from 16% to 22% leak down
 
Posts: 234 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: December 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Dave Koehler
posted Hide Post
MFI is dumb. IF it ran fine before and IF all the passages are currently open and the pump is pumping your problem is elsewhere.


Dave Koehler - Koehler Injection - http://www.koehlerinjection.com
Fuel Injection - Nitrous Charger - Nitrous Master Software - Balancing
99% of fuel injection problems are electric.
 
Posts: 351 | Location: Urbana, IL 61802 | Registered: December 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of C Hodge
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Everything they told me to check was good. Could it be something in the barrel valve ? It only does it after it’s been loaded like it’s dumping fuel in the engine. Kind acts like a car with a stuck N&S X10
 
Posts: 234 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: December 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Stephen Hughes
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quote:
Originally posted by C Hodge:
Ok so a new terminator kit and having a issue in the shutdown and warmup. The first 4 weeks it didn’t have an issue but last week when warming the car I brought it up to 160 and applied the transbrake and brought it up to 3500 to put a little heat in the transmission. After I went back to an idle it sounded funny and wouldn’t rev. Cutting the engine off and refiring it was fine. Come back up to 3500 again on the brake and it did it again. Couldn’t find anything wrong so I made a pass. Ran fine in the burnout and down track but at the turnoff it sounded funny again and wouldn’t rev, again killing the ignition and refiring it revel fine. I called Ron’s tech line and they had me check the vent, return line, o-ring behind the return pill and the poppet valve in the return fitting. All checked to be fine. I went as far as knocking the poppet out of the fitting and still acted the same. The only thing it changed was made it harder to start so I put it back in after a few passes. It does it every pass in the shutdown and warmup only for 2 weekends now. Has anyone else had or seen this issue ? I’ve had barrel valve from 16% to 22% leak down


Any chance you run a grid with the safety run time limiter active?


The Pull-Out....for when you want to work smarter, not harder!!!
 
Posts: 336 | Location: Texas | Registered: September 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of C Hodge
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MR Hughes you may be onto something. I do run a grid and I have been playing with the safety setting. It never crossed my mind
 
Posts: 234 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: December 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of C Hodge
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Guess it had me puzzled because it wouldn’t clear out at an idle. I think it’s set at 1000rpm and idle is at 1300
 
Posts: 234 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: December 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Stephen Hughes
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The fact that when you shut it off and refire it’s fine made me think of that. Had mine set at 8 sec and 2000 rpm at one point and it started acting crazy in the shutdown, took me a minute to figure it out. I raised it up to 2500 and all is good, I also got in a habit of kicking it into neutral once i’m well into the shut down area and haven’t had any more issues.


The Pull-Out....for when you want to work smarter, not harder!!!
 
Posts: 336 | Location: Texas | Registered: September 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
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Stephen H nailed it.

In Grid REV Limiter Settings tabs, the Safety Rev Limiter should be a “Minimum “ of 3500 rpm or more.

I’ll suggest something more important to look at in Grid Data Acquisition of your run. After you zero the DA to Launch, open the RPM, Rev Limit Active, Rev Limit RPM and the Ignition Out channels.

If the Rev Limit Active is Active during the shutdown and the Ignition Out is not firing you are running fuel through your engine and it is NOT being ignited.

I see this programming error made by many that I have reviewed.

Here’s what I wrote about this subject in my Introduction to Grid in the TIPS section….

In the REV LIMITER / SETTINGS tabs, the Safety Run-Time uses a default setting of 12.5 seconds. I recommend leaving this setting during initial set-up. The Safety Rev Limiter has a default setting of 2,000 rpm. This value should be raised to 3,500 rpm. The reason for this is that the engine will be rpm limited to this value while shutting down and driving back from the end of the track. To disable this feature, enter an rpm value that is the same or greater than the “Maximum Rev Limiter” setting. To Tune this feature to the best settings, reduce the Safety Run-Time by 0.5 seconds every run, until you see activity in the “Rev Limit Active” channel in Data Acquisition during the run shutdown. When this activity is achieved in the display, return to the previous Safety Run-Time setting. DO NOT use a Safety Run-Time setting “Less Than” your elapsed time plus 1.5 seconds. Example…. A 9.00 et car should not have a finished programmed setting of less than 10.5 seconds in this example. You want the ignition to fire every pulse unlimited during a “normal” shut down.

A good way to tune the Safety Run settings, is after zeroing a Data Acquisition to Launch, open the Engine RPM, Rev Limit Active and Rev Limit RPM. Do an overlay of these three by selecting the box with the two squiggly lines together. The Rev Limit RPM channel is the “Programmed” safety run limits based on time and rpm. From this you should be able to establish safety run time and rpm settings that keeps the engine firing without interruption during shut down, but also is able to stop a runaway condition.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: markemark,
 
Posts: 2412 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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This picture is an excellent example of how the Grid Safety Run-Time and Safety Rev Limiter is properly programmed in this 5.6 car.

Notice that the Orange Rev Limit Active does not activate during the shutdown, but the Green Rev Limit RPM programming comes very close to the Purple Engine RPM. This assures that the Ignition Out is firing every pulse during the shutdown of the run and if the engine was in a run-away condition it’d be RPM limited.

https://i.imgur.com/tvydAOK.jpg
 
Posts: 2412 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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This MSD ReView picture is the same car as above, but programmed incorrectly. Notice that the Ignition Out is NOT firing for 3.55 seconds during the shutdown of the run.

This is a very common programming error that I often Review.

https://i.imgur.com/iPh3dkK.jpg
 
Posts: 2412 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Mike Nitzsche
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We went through this with my Digital 7.
 
Posts: 1364 | Location: Lansing,Mi | Registered: March 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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I am glad you found your issue. More often than not these type of problems are not fuel injection related which Mr. Koehler pointed out earlier in the thread. With all of these new features in these digital ignitions there is so many more variables to look at than ever before.

Scott
 
Posts: 1838 | Location: Illinois | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Is there a way to reach Killerron's?? I haven't been able to reach them by email or by phone. I was trying to get some RPD bracketry.
 
Posts: 2 | Location: El Diablo  | Registered: January 10, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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quote:
Originally posted by wonkie67:
Is there a way to reach Killerron's?? I haven't been able to reach them by email or by phone. I was trying to get some RPD bracketry.


Check your private messages please.

Scott
 
Posts: 1838 | Location: Illinois | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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