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stagging w/o sle and injection.
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DRR Sportsman
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Ran injection for years and have always done the same thing using injection as I do using carbs

Stage, foot on brake, transbrake pressed once both drivers staged. When I release the transbrake I take my foot off the brake and press the gas. If the car is much slower than I just wait a little longer to the the second step
 
Posts: 817 | Location: Georgia | Registered: May 09, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of wideopen231
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Originally posted by 183N:
What rusty said - SLEs were meant to increase consistency and they do.

I have done testing and have data to back it up. Being on the chip for the same amount of time each run is critical for consistency. The longer you're on the converter the looser it gets. Even a half second matters!

On a time trial it's no big deal to let go then mat it. But you better not spot someone a big head start during eliminations and floor it too soon because it WILL change the stall of the converter and your 60' too! This is the problem the SLE solves.


Time on chip would be more with sle. I'm not going on chip or WOT till second amber has been on or as third amber is coming on. That would also eliminate any problem with slower cars.




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Posts: 4296 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of wideopen231
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Originally posted by Alkyfool:
If you want to control the time off of the SLE solenoid, you might try a delay off timer.

DAYTON Single Function Encapsulated Timing Relay, 12 to 125VDC, Mounting: Surface, SPST-NO
Item # 5WML7 Mfr. Model # 5WML7 Catalog Page # 222 UNSPSC # 39121519 about $22.00

Gives a few steps and will hold off the event for 0.05, 0.2, 0.4, 0.6, 0.8 or 1 second.

Should work with about 2 amp 12vdc CO2 solenoid. If it is wired differently, try a delay on timer.


Might make good temp fix till get another box,if staging and going wot between 2nd and 3rd bulb doesn't work.




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Posts: 4296 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by racerdude2054:
Ran injection for years and have always done the same thing using injection as I do using carbs

Stage, foot on brake, transbrake pressed once both drivers staged. When I release the transbrake I take my foot off the brake and press the gas. If the car is much slower than I just wait a little longer to the the second step


Before I had an sle, that's what I did with mfi. I don't want to tell ya that you are overthinking this WO. But you are over thinking this. React to the first bulb, and open the throttle. If against a slower car, wait for your second bulb before you open the throttle. Won't hurt a thing with a two step.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6426 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Curly1
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You do not need all that junk. Get out there run the car and then if you determine you need something go from there.
I do not run an SLE, do not have a electronic lean out for when it is on the two step or transbrake and do not think it is needed in fact may hurt it.

Just get out there and run the car.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

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Posts: 4112 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of RacerVX54
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quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
You do not need all that junk. Get out there run the car and then if you determine you need something go from there.
I do not run an SLE, do not have a electronic lean out for when it is on the two step or transbrake and do not think it is needed in fact may hurt it.

Just get out there and run the car.


All hail the might Curly... He said you don't need it hope everyone listens haha smh


"Just Shut Up and Race"

Brian Martin
Martin Racing
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Posts: 1406 | Location: Va.Beach .Va | Registered: August 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by RacerVX54:
quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
You do not need all that junk. Get out there run the car and then if you determine you need something go from there.
I do not run an SLE, do not have a electronic lean out for when it is on the two step or transbrake and do not think it is needed in fact may hurt it.

Just get out there and run the car.


All hail the might Curly... He said you don't need it hope everyone listens haha smh


I don't know what that is all about, and I don't think Curly meant it as all knowing. But in reality, probably more people run without the sle on injection and did it well before the sle's were a thing. So really, he's probably right in saying it isn't needed. I run an SLE now, but didn't for years on MFI. There's nothing on any of the fuel injection sales websites that I see saying you need an SLE. All the SLE does, is pretty much what I used to do. I just don't have to do it now.


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Posts: 6426 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Originally posted by Bucky:
I don't know what that is all about, and I don't think Curly meant it as all knowing. But in reality, probably more people run without the sle on injection and did it well before the sle's were a thing. So really, he's probably right in saying it isn't needed. I run an SLE now, but didn't for years on MFI. There's nothing on any of the fuel injection sales websites that I see saying you need an SLE. All the SLE does, is pretty much what I used to do. I just don't have to do it now.


This is all true, unless you are REALLY REALLY REALLY concerned with how much time you might spend on the 2-step. In that case, the SLE is the most simple method by a wide margin.


Tony Leonard
 
Posts: 3183 | Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN | Registered: March 18, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Curly1
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quote:
Originally posted by RacerVX54:
quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
You do not need all that junk. Get out there run the car and then if you determine you need something go from there.
I do not run an SLE, do not have a electronic lean out for when it is on the two step or transbrake and do not think it is needed in fact may hurt it.

Just get out there and run the car.


All hail the might Curly... He said you don't need it hope everyone listens haha smh


No, what I am saying is keep it simple and get out there and run the car THEN determine IF it is a problem. The man is on a budget and if I was in his shoes I would not spend anything on electronic leanouts, SLE's and all of that other stuff. Get a trailer and go race. Get some passes in then in the off season maybe make some changes. At this rate he will never get it out to the track.
Making a bigger deal out of it than it really is. I say keep it simple, quit adding all that bull, quit spending money on things that MAY or MAY NOT be needed and make some passes. Those things may help but they are also something else to go wrong or miss the set up. Those are things to add to the cost and delay getting it out to the track.
I do not mean to sound like a horses tail but he has no trailer and wasting time and money on trivial stuff that may not be needed. I am sorry if that bothers you but I think it is crazy. Get a trailer and go race.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4112 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of wideopen231
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I agree need trailer and working on that but in lot bigger pieces than 40 or 50 buck piece. Hell 3 cheap lunches cost that and I skip those most day. Add in fact Chris has never been one to save money back if so I would have never run TA cars for 8 years and went thru 2 or 3 small fortunes.

I get your point and know small amounts add up.just never been one to be able to save them that long. I can hold cpl grand back because I see it getting there.If I was just buying gadgets I would have sold K&R FOR 300,SPENT 600 FOR BIONDO so SLE would work as I want.Instead I spent that on helmet bar pads to keep my head from denting the moly tubing in case of. Winter projects list already getting pretty deep.New grp rods,new isky lifters,new 4.400 14:1 pistons,build new design intake and oh yea finish trailer with little stuff like walls and roof provided the flatbed is done as planned. nothing 10k wouldn't get done. Ways to spend money I am never short of. LMAO

AS for electric leanouts,richening valves,timers,2 step,rpm activated switches,air solenoids I may have spent 40 bucks and have shelf full of various pieces from past racing deals.Like 2 days ago going thru tackle box,probably 150 nozzles,3 jet blocks,1/2 dozen poopets and linkage pieces.Told buddy must be 2 grand worth of parts and might get 600 bucks for all. Not worth selling since probably need some in future.
Prime example I now have driving lights for crappy return roads. Is it a must have no,can it be helpful yes. WHat did it cost about 6 bucks for wire ends had lights,old turn signals off Harleys. Small enough to fit between a arms ,never lite enough and cost was perfect 0. Same for tail light except no more cost.
The time spent plumbing and wiring or changing is just therapy after day of dealing with stupid people. Beats drinking 5th good bourbon,well healthier anyway. Once I have all tubing needed to fram trailer and welder deal done then that time can go into trailer.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: wideopen231,




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Posts: 4296 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Lenny5160:
quote:
Originally posted by Bucky:
I don't know what that is all about, and I don't think Curly meant it as all knowing. But in reality, probably more people run without the sle on injection and did it well before the sle's were a thing. So really, he's probably right in saying it isn't needed. I run an SLE now, but didn't for years on MFI. There's nothing on any of the fuel injection sales websites that I see saying you need an SLE. All the SLE does, is pretty much what I used to do. I just don't have to do it now.


This is all true, unless you are REALLY REALLY REALLY concerned with how much time you might spend on the 2-step. In that case, the SLE is the most simple method by a wide margin.


I don't disagree. But there is nothing about mfi that makes it a need. It's better for all cars IMO.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6426 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of wideopen231
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See that where I disagree about two step and sle. Being on 2 step as soon as you hit button(zforce here) you are on 2 step if box is programmed that way. Not issue for lots of folks and probably not mechanical one here its I don't like it working quite that way for me.

IMO sle works better with carb as it is set up now. Carb regulates fuel coming in with air coming in. MFI does not.

I agree nothing about MFI makes it a must have.Only reason I even put one on car was lots talking about more consistent car and driver. I did not know what I had was preset as to when it opened,only issue. Only reason for post was to see what others running w/o where doing in regards to stage,tree and hitting throttle as to where or when. Just a info research thing. Will I try it yes once I can set it to work when I want and how I want.

I think Curly was stating his opinion on its not a have to have to run and pointing out running w/o it is better than waiting to run because of not having. Which If I can tune driver (dang old guys) to drive it like he did 30 years ago.I will probably never use it and just remove it. Yea Iwas MFI when MFI wasn't cool.




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Posts: 4296 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Curly1
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True a carb limits fuel in relation to air but MFI also limits fuel when you are on the two step due to RPM. That is a large part of MFI tune is the volume of fuel increases with RPM.

MFI is really simple and it works well on a race car.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4112 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Lenny5160
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quote:
Originally posted by Bucky:
I don't disagree. But there is nothing about mfi that makes it a need.


Again I agree. I don't have one on the car that I race the most.

Chris has an SLE, which I know because I sold it to him. This entire topic is about avoiding 3-4 tenths of a second on the 2-step.

Seems negligible to most of us, but we aren't going to change his mind.


Tony Leonard
 
Posts: 3183 | Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN | Registered: March 18, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Picture of wideopen231
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quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
True a carb limits fuel in relation to air but MFI also limits fuel when you are on the two step due to RPM. That is a large part of MFI tune is the volume of fuel increases with RPM.

MFI is really simple and it works well on a race car.


Talk about preaching to choir ,hell choir director and the preacher, I have been MFI is only thing that belongs on race car guy for 30 plus years. Like I said I am like old Barbra Mandrell song I was fuel injection when fuel injection wasn't cool. I remember in 1986 when we started running it there where three local bracket cars with injection. Drew Davis,Dupree's and us. I heard hundred times if one that car run better if you pull that off. I would laugh and go yep if slower is better and w/o all these dang runs being same number every time.

As for simple thats reason I don't like carbs too much stuff going on.Plus with injection I can change one thing w/o wondering what else going to change with it.If there is going to be a change its pretty easy to predict. Probably same for some with carbs,but I am not one of them.

MFI limits with rpm but also with BV that keeps fuel to air more proportionate till fly are full open.

Curly I see you run enderle hat with enderle cube. Pics not good enough to tell pump flow(LMAO). Open it wide open with lines off and look thru it. Then find a K style BV open it and look thru it. Two different worlds flow wise. You can also go to FIE site,go to tune up calc. enter your info. Look at numbers especially system, pressure.Then go back and change the BV from cube to k style and look at pressure you will see how much more restrictive it is.Not really bad just big difference. Kind of bad in this case on my side as there is no restriction except nozzles. Add in a 7.1 gpm pump same as 80A-1 and to my understanding from post by good amount of others they run smaller pump,again is fine and works.

Lenny is dead on especially on changing mind. Also on negligible part except I do not like it being 1.1 seconds. Yes going from 1.1 to .5 or so is minor,but it is what I want to have happen.Which means its only way its going to be done on this car.

Thanks again for SLE I will be using it in near future once I get control sequence as I want.




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Posts: 4296 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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Ive done it a bunch of different ways.

No SLE, 2 step, delay box, wide open at release, didn't matter about cross over just matted it. If it was a big spread sometimes i'd have to lift till my tree came on.
SLE, 2 step, delay box.
SLE, delay box, leave from an idle.
SLE, delay box, with 2 step lean out, leave from idle and off the 2 step chip.

If won bracket races all 5 ways.

The easiest way i see out of this whole issue here is to buy a new delay box that has the ability to change the time that the SLE turns off. Otherwise, run what ya got and quit worrying about it. From what i've seen there is VERY little to NO difference in all the different ways you can approach this. Oh and i am one of those guys who hates carburetors, so all of the above was done with injection.

Now with a blower and chasing ET and trying to make it run hard down low, there's a bunch to be found in that 2 step lean out.
 
Posts: 408 | Location: Pride, La | Registered: April 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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