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aluminum blocks vs horsepower
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DRR Pro
posted
I know that aluminum blocks have a limit to power they can hold together but where exactly is the threshold?
Using the bbc and brodix hipp block and dart aluminum block, im going to assume boost is really the only power adder that would push these beyond their limit.
Reher morrison has stated they limit their boosted series motors to 2000hp.They seem to feel 2000hp is safe and reliable.They didnt mention boost numbers just horsepower.
The biggest issue appears to be movement of components within the block.
My question is would a high end billet crank reduce the aluminum blocks issues? And how much additional reliability does filling the block add?
Trying to determine if either the dart or brodix aluminum blocks can survive 2300 to 2400 HP
 
Posts: 1431 | Location: united states | Registered: January 16, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
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Top fuel uses aluminum blocks at 10,000+.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4107 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have a Hipped 1/2 filled Brodix aluminum block. I believe I am in the 2500 hp range and at the limits of the block. I have bad main cap walk. I have been told to live with it, nature of the beast. I do have a Winberg billet crank. Also been told by many than they will eventually crack in the main webb. Plus they only have 7/16 head studs that pull from the standard location. So that limits the boost level to 35 tops IMO

I will say this, if I stick with this I will never buy another Brodix, my next Chevy block will be a CN billet block, cross bolted mains and 1/2 head studs that pull from deep in the block.
If you have big bucks and you want to make big boost with a strong block with GM style head get a AJPE 481X Proline motor. Basically a hemi with GM style heads

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Big Steve,
 
Posts: 2473 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
Top fuel uses aluminum blocks at 10,000+.


Bruce, a cast Brodix or Dart aluminum block are not in the same class as the top fuel billet block
 
Posts: 2473 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Big Steve:
I have a Hipped 1/2 filled Brodix aluminum block. I believe I am in the 2500 hp range and at the limits of the block. I have bad main cap walk. I have been told to live with it, nature of the beast. I do have a Winberg billet crank. Also been told by many than they will eventually crack in the main webb. Plus they only have 7/16 head studs that pull from the standard location. So that limits the boost level to 35 tops IMO

I will say this, if I stick with this I will never buy another Brodix, my next Chevy block will be a CN billet block, cross bolted mains and 1/2 head studs that pull from deep in the block.
If you have big bucks and you want to make big boost with a strong block with GM style head get a AJPE 481X Proline motor. Basically a hemi with GM style heads


Steve, we have two 4.900 CN blocks, could not get 4.900 cast earlier. We are using hand me down Pro Stock heads thus 4.900. We had dart iron before and they were great however h e a v y . The new stuff moves but not like at your power level.


Raceless in California!
 
Posts: 4550 | Location: Vacaville  | Registered: January 07, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
Top fuel uses aluminum blocks at 10,000+.



Come on man not even in the same universe.... Smh


"Just Shut Up and Race"

Brian Martin
Martin Racing
5.66 @121.55
 
Posts: 1406 | Location: Va.Beach .Va | Registered: August 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by RacerVX54:
quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
Top fuel uses aluminum blocks at 10,000+.



Come on man not even in the same universe.... Smh


Duh! I know they are not the same and the fuel motors do not last very long. The reason I mentioned it at all is to make you think the more horsepower you make shorter life span is.
Which is what original question was all about how much horsepower can the block handle? I was just making note it depends on how long you expect it to live.

Even when you make 2500 HP you are beating up parts, rods and blocks. (My junk should last a very long time. Lol)

Speed cost money- how fast you want to go?


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4107 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Big Steve is correct. When you get to 2200 or so cross bolted mains and 1/2" head studs that anchor deep in the block are the only way to go. Never had head gasket, cap walking or bearing problems with my cast New Century block. A CN billet block would be even better. Also the 481X is a stout piece.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: "The Bender",


272" Spitzer
540 Chevy
The Blower Shop XR1
FTI XPM Series Converter
FTI Level 6 Powerglide
3.69@199
.916 60'

2017 Bradenton Heads Up Madness
Open Outlaw Champ

2018 PDRA T/D #5
2019 PDRA T/D #2

2020 Retired From T/D Competition....

2020 Bradenton NMCA Hemi Shootout Winner

2021 getting back into bracket racing with a Gen3 Hemi powered 87 Cutlass.
 
Posts: 3100 | Location: Yes | Registered: July 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The brodix aluminum hipp block must work in that HP range...reher morrison,steve morris engines,par racing,steve schmidt and shafiroff are using this block in their procharger motors claiming 2200 to 2500HP.They are all also using the callies magnun crank with the 2.200 journal
 
Posts: 1431 | Location: united states | Registered: January 16, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by jenavet:
The brodix aluminum hipp block must work in that HP range...reher morrison,steve morris engines,par racing,steve schmidt and shafiroff are using this block in their procharger motors claiming 2200 to 2500HP.They are all also using the callies magnun crank with the 2.200 journal


It will work but will it last?. Reher Morrison does all my machine work, David Reher is one of many who told me to live with the cap walk at my HP level and watch for main webb cracks. The reason they use the Brodix block is because a billet block cost is not feasible to most of there customers. Another thing to consider is a supercharger create a lot of harmonics in the engine where maybe a Procharger does not.
Cap walk picture

Callies magnum crank, 72 runs

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Big Steve,
 
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quote:
It will work but will it last?.

steve i wonder if its the way boost is fed into the motor..roots blower vs procharger?
 
Posts: 1431 | Location: united states | Registered: January 16, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The Roots blower is harder on everything than a procharger is.


272" Spitzer
540 Chevy
The Blower Shop XR1
FTI XPM Series Converter
FTI Level 6 Powerglide
3.69@199
.916 60'

2017 Bradenton Heads Up Madness
Open Outlaw Champ

2018 PDRA T/D #5
2019 PDRA T/D #2

2020 Retired From T/D Competition....

2020 Bradenton NMCA Hemi Shootout Winner

2021 getting back into bracket racing with a Gen3 Hemi powered 87 Cutlass.
 
Posts: 3100 | Location: Yes | Registered: July 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
The Roots blower is harder on everything than a procharger is.

For real..the blower takes alot of horsepower to drive it and the belt and hub must play havoc with crankshaft harmonics.The procharger takes virtually no HP to drive it
 
Posts: 1431 | Location: united states | Registered: January 16, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
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quote:
Originally posted by jenavet:
quote:
The Roots blower is harder on everything than a procharger is.

For real..the blower takes alot of horsepower to drive it and the belt and hub must play havoc with crankshaft harmonics.The procharger takes virtually no HP to drive it


I can understand how a roots type blower is hard on the crankshaft because of vibration but fail to see how Procharger does not take HP to pump the air into motor? To build boost takes power and creates heat by nature.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4107 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR S/Pro
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They take quite a bit of horsepower to run, not as much as a roots for the same boost though. The harmonics are negligible compared to a roots and that's the biggest difference.


272" Spitzer
540 Chevy
The Blower Shop XR1
FTI XPM Series Converter
FTI Level 6 Powerglide
3.69@199
.916 60'

2017 Bradenton Heads Up Madness
Open Outlaw Champ

2018 PDRA T/D #5
2019 PDRA T/D #2

2020 Retired From T/D Competition....

2020 Bradenton NMCA Hemi Shootout Winner

2021 getting back into bracket racing with a Gen3 Hemi powered 87 Cutlass.
 
Posts: 3100 | Location: Yes | Registered: July 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Besides the cool factor a blower has over a ProCharger, they both make great power. The reason you see so many ProCharger combos these days in Top Dragster is anyone with $40-50K can buy one turn key with a blow thru carb and go race with A minimum learning curve. Unlike a roots blower and MFI which have Huge learning curve and can be a bit more inconsistent to changing conditions.
 
Posts: 2473 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Micheal, just remember just because your making the switch to a ProCharger dont think for 1 minute that you wont hurt parts. I have seen numerous PC combos with broke rods, blown head gaskets, torched heads and burned pistons.
 
Posts: 2473 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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quote:
Originally posted by Big Steve:
Micheal, just remember just because your making the switch to a ProCharger dont think for 1 minute that you wont hurt parts. I have seen numerous PC combos with broke rods, blown head gaskets, torched heads and burned pistons.


Yup, boost kills.......


272" Spitzer
540 Chevy
The Blower Shop XR1
FTI XPM Series Converter
FTI Level 6 Powerglide
3.69@199
.916 60'

2017 Bradenton Heads Up Madness
Open Outlaw Champ

2018 PDRA T/D #5
2019 PDRA T/D #2

2020 Retired From T/D Competition....

2020 Bradenton NMCA Hemi Shootout Winner

2021 getting back into bracket racing with a Gen3 Hemi powered 87 Cutlass.
 
Posts: 3100 | Location: Yes | Registered: July 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jenavet:
I know that aluminum blocks have a limit to power they can hold together but where exactly is the threshold?
Using the bbc and brodix hipp block and dart aluminum block, im going to assume boost is really the only power adder that would push these beyond their limit.
Reher morrison has stated they limit their boosted series motors to 2000hp.They seem to feel 2000hp is safe and reliable.They didnt mention boost numbers just horsepower.
The biggest issue appears to be movement of components within the block.
My question is would a high end billet crank reduce the aluminum blocks issues? And how much additional reliability does filling the block add?
Trying to determine if either the dart or brodix aluminum blocks can survive 2300 to 2400 HP


I can tell you a fact that Brodix hipped and donovan will survive that power. solid heads help


J.R. Baxter

""Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured ..but not everyone must prove they are a citizen."

2024 Miller
Rolla Competition Engines
ProCharger
Hoosier Tires
Abruzzi
 
Posts: 1532 | Location: Waxahachie | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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my donovan block is 6 years old the best I remember and works great...


J.R. Baxter

""Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured ..but not everyone must prove they are a citizen."

2024 Miller
Rolla Competition Engines
ProCharger
Hoosier Tires
Abruzzi
 
Posts: 1532 | Location: Waxahachie | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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