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pro charger over roots or helix
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Picture of wideopen231
posted
Sp tell me why pro chargers is better than and roots ,hi helix super charger or screw blower rules allowing?

I can understand that roots or hi helix is not as consistent with wear of Teflon or nylatraon. Also screrw not legal in all situations. I do know screw blower is very consistent and one bad MF'er. All of you guy going blower makes me regret selling my Whipple charger, but then restarain would be a problem.




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Posts: 4212 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Big Steve
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If you follow the NPK series, a majority of them are switching to screw blowers. My thoughts are the screw is much more reliable. The guys with Pro Charger have to have a couple of spares in the trailer because they are spinning them so fast to make boost the gear boxes are failing making them more expensive to run.

As far as TD/TS etc. unless you want to run EFI, anyone with $50K can go to SDPC race shop, Oakley, Par racing engines and buy a turn key pro charged 540 chevy and go race

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Big Steve,
 
Posts: 2438 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Good question.

I am thinking they have existing combos and just want to add a little boost to pick up.

I would think that if starting from scratch, a new dedicated build would be roots blowen MFI on methanol. A 1200-1500HP build would be pretty mild and durable if built correctly. And of course, some can't get away from a carburetor.
 
Posts: 105 | Location: upstate NY | Registered: January 15, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of David Covey
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You can control the boost on a pro charger the same way as a turbo, wear as with a roots/screw you can use timing and that's about it other than increase/decrease boost through the run.
Not so much a consistency thing as a tricky track thing.

Dave


"It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance." -Thomas Sowell
 
Posts: 3310 | Location: American By Birth Texan By The Grace Of God  | Registered: April 29, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Alaskaracer
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Prochargers take less hp to drive them and are more efficient. One of the guys here used to be a nitrous car. Switched to a roots blower, was running 6.60's at 20lbs of boost. Ditched the roots and went pro charger, same combo, same boost, now runs 6.20-6.30's. I don't know about reliability but they are becoming very popular.


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Posts: 1500 | Location: Back home in Alaska! | Registered: February 13, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This will be an interesting thread to watch to see why the people that have made the change to one of these combos went with what they did.

I personally went roots, and I went that way because it took the least amount of changes to make everything fit. To get started, I did not have to purchase anything else other than the initial blower kit. Now have I added stuff since then, yes. Like David said, it can be a little tricky to get a roots down a hot or not as well prepped track, so I added a grid to help with that. I decided to put my vacuum pump back on, so had to purchase a new mandrel. Then this year I decided to move to mfi.
 
Posts: 35 | Location: Gilmer, TX | Registered: October 07, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Big Steve
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Nothing against Pro Chargers, lots of them out there and they are dam fast for sure. Personally I run a blower because they just look and sound so friggen badass!!
 
Posts: 2438 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
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quote:
Originally posted by Big Steve:
I run a blower because they just look and sound so friggen badass!!


Steve, those Prochargers at idle sound like something is seriously coming apart in the engine, but holy cow when a procharged car gets on the loud pedal it wakes up in a HURRY.
 
Posts: 1108 | Location: OklahomaCity,OK | Registered: December 01, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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arent these new bad ass roots blowers and screws like 20k$? that could easily be a reason


J.R. Baxter

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Posts: 1525 | Location: Waxahachie | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of CURTIS REED
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Don't get a Procharger. You have to lift at 700' or you run under. LOL Talking TD.

Or at least a few of the TD guys I know.



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Posts: 2965 | Location: KIEFER, OK. | Registered: August 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Big Steve:
As far as TD/TS etc. unless you want to run EFI, anyone with $50K can go to SDPC race shop, Oakley, Par racing engines and buy a turnkey pro charged 540 chevy and go race


So how much power is needed to run these ET limited TD/TS bracket cars.

I don't think a $20,000 blower and a Noonan HEMI with Allen Jonson tunning it is necessary for these goals. I might be wrong though. In my opinion you can buy a pretty nice Littlefield for about $5000 and put it on a purposely built BBC and meet the needs in this same price range. Very low Maintenace and repeatability would be my goal.

https://www.nhradiv5.com/apcm/...sp?a=26511&print=yes


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Posts: 105 | Location: upstate NY | Registered: January 15, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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quote:
Originally posted by 69427:
quote:
Originally posted by Big Steve:
As far as TD/TS etc. unless you want to run EFI, anyone with $50K can go to SDPC race shop, Oakley, Par racing engines and buy a turnkey pro charged 540 chevy and go race


So how much power is needed to run these ET limited TD/TS bracket cars.

I don't think a $20,000 blower and a Noonan HEMI with Allen Jonson tunning it is necessary for these goals. I might be wrong though. In my opinion you can buy a pretty nice Littlefield for about $5000 and put it on a purposely built BBC and meet the needs in this same price range. Very low Maintenace and repeatability would be my goal.

https://www.nhradiv5.com/apcm/...sp?a=26511&print=yes


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Like most other classes, run what you can afford. But remember Not all blowers are equal. Certainly do not need to spend $15-20K on a DMPE or screw blower. But then you don't want an old worn out blower that you have to spin 40:1 to get 20lbs of boost either. The TBS XR1 14/71 is a great very efficient blower with a lot of bang for the buck. My fastest pulley is 19:1 and it makes 30-34lbs depending on barometer. Your camshaft and cylinder heads also play a big role in how much boost you make. 4 years ago I paid $7200, today I think list price is $8300. I have gone 6.01 @ 235.70, this is a suspended car at 2135lbs.
 
Posts: 2438 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My son Mike's Spitzer 280 slip joint with a pretty basic Chevy 522 and a Littlefield 14/71 = 6.12 to 6.23. Not the quickest car in the field but still very competitive and done with very little money. Never failed to qualify in any field, including Indy.

Bob
 
Posts: 3090 | Location: Lakeside, Ca | Registered: February 15, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Pro-charger will generate the same boost and use less power to drive, IE the boost doesn't cost you that much so as a previous poster stated make the same boost go faster. Boost is also infinitely adjustable (up to limits of the procharger) due to the design (compression occurs ahead of the air valve and boost controller in this section of the piping) but this also by default complicates the heck out of the system. Blow through systems are not simple and require custom inlet piping, blow off valves, boost control systems, blow through carburetor or EFI, packaging can be a challenge, drive systems aren't easy to figure out assuming you are talking Top Dragster/Top Sportsman and want to be competitive from an ET perspective. They aren't cheap and are relatively fewer in number compared to roots style blowers.

Roots style 71 series blowers (standard or high helix) are comparatively easier to install, usually more plentiful, and decent 71 series blowers are more available in the used market for reasonable $$. Downside is the boost is more expensive on the end of the crank (how much HP they take to drive). Bost is not adjustable (during the run due to no boost control valve) and is typically at higher/max boost levels earlier in the RPM range.

A standard BBC (500-540 Cubic inch), good cylinder heads (360-380CC runner, conventional configuration), 13:0-1 compression and 0.800 lift cam with even a decent street 8:71 blower can run 4.40's in your standard dragster with a carb or MFI without much else other than a bottom end that can withstand the abuse. Add in a nice High helix 8:71 or bigger, and your ET is only limited by your ability to manage the tune up and swap pulleys. They are hard headed to deal with (dual calipers highly recommended on a dragster) in that they idle like they are trying to eat you and make crazy power early in the game, but thats kinda the point right???

No clue about screw blowers as i've never worked on one or even around one.
 
Posts: 387 | Location: Pride, La | Registered: April 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Picture of Curly1
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One thing I do not think has been mentioned and it may not be a big deal. With a Roots type or screw blower they are basically off or on. With the Procharger deal they may be a little softer at the hit and produce more on the big end which could be and advantage. This may be done with waste gates, gearing of it etc or some may be due to design. Still I could see where leaving a little softer and better MPH could be an advantage.

That is something JR Baxter or Rusty may know more about.


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Posts: 4044 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I ran a 10-71 for 7 years with some descent success in t/d then switched to an f1x procharger in 2021...here is why it worked for me.

My roots blower deal was dry and i needed to be towed up and back.Worked great when i had consistent crew chief,but now with very limited help its so much easier to drive the procharger up and back..no assistance needed.Was pretty cool at an ihra track last year ran two back to back 5.96 and drove her back to the pits.

No more wheelie bar!! Car leaves in the .960 to .970 range and never wheelies or gets weird outta the hole.

No more worrying about weather swings which with a roots blower meant alot of pill changes.My procharger runs an apd carb and has main jets and air bleeds which are way more forgiving unless you have a massive weather change.Cant even count how many times ive seen the blower guys lean a motor out missing a pill change.

My procharger runs a front drive which means no more worrying about blowing off a belt at the worst time.She uses gears and a lil gear oil with virtually no maintenance.

And lastly if your a roots or screw blower guy i sure would love to see you womp womp your throttle at 1000 to 1100 feet...unless of course its 4th of july!!
 
Posts: 1426 | Location: united states | Registered: January 16, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of wideopen231
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Steve:
If you follow the NPK series, a majority of them are switching to screw blowers. My thoughts are the screw is much more reliable. The guys with Pro Charger have to have a couple of spares in the trailer because they are spinning them so fast to make boost the gear boxes are failing making them more expensive to run.

I know screw blowers are top of list. When I Had whipple on TA/D it had halfa$$ tuneup and hauled. I basically just flipped number 2 to number seven on funny car system we ran and car was running 3.60 at 200 1/8 mile times and that was 1996, Top end was ok but had valvetrain issue. Those old BAE fuel style heads were not meant for 10,500 shifts,plus Enderle pumps not happy there either.
I even had it sitting on FED as bs thing and all you could see was the back of the blower. Made dad happy as hell when I sold it. 140# on top of intake in fed,not going to be a great handling ride.LOL.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: wideopen231,




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Posts: 4212 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of wideopen231
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I can promice you a screw will be hell of lot more consistent race after race compared to roots style. Another plus would be lot less power to drive it.

Either would be lot cheaper for me to run over pro charger. Everything sitting on shelf for roots or screw,except blowser.

A big plus for me on roots would be a nice race prepped 6-71 could be run in nostalgia stuff.

Another plus would be 30 years of playing with belt driven blowers and fuel systems.

Even if went with pro charger it would have to be with injection/ Last time I had anything with card on than street junk was 1986. Pus diabetics are supposed to avoid carbs.LOL

Not that I can go with any of above choices right now. I see advantages to all. Actually looking at a two-powertrain deal with aut for bracket o and c 3 disc glide clutch for A/fuel nostalgia. Bracket is more financially smart, but once you get a taste of nitro it is hard as hell not to want to play some.




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Posts: 4212 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of wideopen231
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Thanks for replies and thoughts on blower choices and a blower will always be possible with old TA guy likie myself.




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Posts: 4212 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There has been wrong info posted about the ProCharger system. I'm a rooky with our ProCharger, but the reason I chose it was for the simplicity for bracket racing. There's no complex piping, boost control systems, waste gates & whatever else has been posted.

My system has a charge tube with a single blow off valve going to the bonnet mounted on the blow through EFI throttle body. It easily can be done with a blow through Carb. It's not complex at all! Boost is controlled with pulley size & rpm.

As for breakage, the reason they are breaking is the racer/tuner abusing the supercharger. They are over spinning the blower over the recommended RPM, by a good amount. They are bringing the breakage on themselves.

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