Footbrake help

October 06, 2025, 08:04 AM

Ron Gusack

Footbrake help

70 Nova with factory drum brakes. I have 2 primary shoes on the rear. Rear shoes are 2", fronts are 2.5. The car pushes thru the beams at 2700 on the first runs of the day. I'm deep staging in 6.50 index with a 400 tree and a 400 trans. Brakes are adjusted so there's no drag. After a couple runs they usually hold so heat must play a part. Is there a front disc brake solution that holds well and has no drag. I assume Lamb and MW stuff would be best, but does anyone have first hand experience with Strange or Wilwood or an idea of making this system work better? Thanks for any help.

October 06, 2025, 10:46 AM

Goob

Better front brakes aren't going to help you, in my opinion and experience.
The slicks are always going to overcome the fronts.

I was NEVER able to hold my car with the brakes above about 2400 RPM, until I went to a spragless converter. Now I can hold it to above 3500.
TH-400 w/2.10 low.

October 06, 2025, 10:50 AM

Eman

Why 2 primary shoes? I use 2 secondary (more friction material) on the rears. I also used larger wheel cylinders on my rear drums, but I do have front factory discs on my Camaro with Ford drums on the rear.
Are all of the wheel cylinders good? Master cylinder putting out goo pressure? I can hold mine at 3500+ on the line if I wanted.

October 06, 2025, 11:19 AM

Ron Gusack

Goob, diode FTI here, haven't run a spragless since the 80's

Eman, My terminology is bad, I have both long shoes on the rear. I've never pressure tested anything in my brake system. I'll look for pressure data numbers in a service manual All cylinders have been in for about 20 years, nothing leaks. The weirdness is that it holds after a couple runs. Maybe just a smaller bore master would add enough pressure.

October 06, 2025, 12:21 PM

Canted Valve

Don't know about drum shoe materials these days, but disc have a wide variety of "today's" materials available. Some, like ceramic, boast max stopping power from stop 1. Maybe there's some opportunity in mfg. / materials?

Have you tried dragging your brakes on the way to the staging lanes?

October 06, 2025, 01:35 PM

Ron Gusack

quote:
Originally posted by Canted Valve:
Don't know about drum shoe materials these days, but disc have a wide variety of "today's" materials available. Some, like ceramic, boast max stopping power from stop 1. Maybe there's some opportunity in mfg. / materials?

Have you tried dragging your brakes on the way to the staging lanes?

I haven't tried that but it sounds like a great idea, thanks. In the early 70's we ran metallic brake linings and they were great for stopping but that was a clutch car. I couldn't find metallic linings about a year ago. These are regular old Bendix shoes.

October 06, 2025, 01:47 PM

FootbrakeJim

Ron, one of the better tips I received on this forum, was when I was having the same problem, pushing through the beams. I had tried all the high dollar shoes, Semi-Metallic, Metallic, you name it. A racer here recommended the cheapest house-brand shoes they sell at O'Reilly. (Brake Best, maybe?). And get the basic cheapies, not their Gold or Premium, or whatever. I bought a set, put them on, and instant improvement in holding at the line, even when cold off the trailer.
And Dave/Goob is correct, it is the rear brakes you need to address. Mine has front disc, and a couple guys who were watching at the starting line told me it would just slide the front skinnies, with them locked up.

October 06, 2025, 09:00 PM

Ron Gusack

quote:
Originally posted by FootbrakeJim:
Ron, one of the better tips I received on this forum, was when I was having the same problem, pushing through the beams. I had tried all the high dollar shoes, Semi-Metallic, Metallic, you name it. A racer here recommended the cheapest house-brand shoes they sell at O'Reilly. (Brake Best, maybe?). And get the basic cheapies, not their Gold or Premium, or whatever. I bought a set, put them on, and instant improvement in holding at the line, even when cold off the trailer.
And Dave/Goob is correct, it is the rear brakes you need to address. Mine has front disc, and a couple guys who were watching at the starting line told me it would just slide the front skinnies, with them locked up.

Thanks Jim, I'm ready to try some O'Reilly cheapies. I'll let you know.

October 06, 2025, 10:34 PM

Canted Valve

quote:
I couldn't find metallic linings about a year ago.

Metallic / semi-metallic are not what you want. They require heat build up, i.e. the metallic component, and you don't have time for that. You need max performance from the get go.

October 07, 2025, 08:00 AM

Ron Gusack

I found some Raybestos rear shoes for 13 bucks for both sides. Friction material says organic. Scares me a little but I got plenty of room to stop at this track. I'd also love to massage the shoe to fit the drum better and I might try that too. The good brake shops back in the 60's had the tooling to offer that.

October 07, 2025, 10:44 AM

Eman

I'd replace the wheel cylinders just because. Brake fluid attracts moisture and cast iron doesn't like moisture. Do you have a cast iron MC? Od course rubber hoses should be new too. I was amazed at the difference in my brake pedal feel from rubber hoses to braided lines. Been using organic linings and pads and the car stops fine from 108.

October 07, 2025, 02:20 PM

FootbrakeJim

Ron, another tip: Make sure your drums are not glazed. If they are, you may want to get them turned for better bite on those new shoes.

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Gusack:
I'd also love to massage the shoe to fit the drum better and I might try that too. The good brake shops back in the 60's had the tooling to offer that.

Yes, they would Radius the shoes to match the arc of the drums. It probably made a difference, too. Some of the stuff from "the good old days" really was better. Not everything, but a lot of it, especially for us Car Guys.

October 07, 2025, 07:51 PM

double trouble

Stocker guys are using disc brake setups with 2 calipers on each side.

October 08, 2025, 01:47 PM

Ron Gusack

quote:
Originally posted by Eman:
I'd replace the wheel cylinders just because. Brake fluid attracts moisture and cast iron doesn't like moisture. Do you have a cast iron MC? Od course rubber hoses should be new too. I was amazed at the difference in my brake pedal feel from rubber hoses to braided lines. Been using organic linings and pads and the car stops fine from 108.

MC is iron and hoses are rubber. This thing stops fine but holding it at 2900 is a no-go the first couple runs.