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Switching super stock car to a low cost bracket car
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I have a 87 Camaro with no engine at this time looking for suggestions on a low cost engine combo with a 182 power-glide, witch is better for bracket racing to run 10.50.My Camaro is set up for ether big or small block. Also I want to run pump gas. Thank You

This message has been edited. Last edited by: john c,
 
Posts: 6 | Location: california | Registered: October 09, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My opinion is that the bigger air pump is affected less by air changes and is cheaper in the end to run that ET. It’s nothing to run that with a pretty mild big block.

Curtis



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Posts: 2988 | Location: KIEFER, OK. | Registered: August 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Both can easily meet your goal. The small block have to work it a little harder but it weighs less. Like Curtis said you could build a really mild big block that would last.


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Posts: 4066 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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BBC is cheapest to build if looking at power vs cost. SBC is cheapest to build of any engine,just cost more when considerable higher horsepower is goal. IMO a good big block with good flowing heads and matched cam is about all you are going to need.




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Posts: 4239 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by john c:
I have a 87 Camaro with no engine at this time looking for suggestions on a low cost engine combo with a 182 power-glide, witch is better for bracket racing to run 10.50.My Camaro is set up for ether big or small block. Thank You



Bbc 468 rec port heads, good roller cam, you only need 550 hp or so to run 10.50’s in a 3600 lb car. Sounds like you have the car!


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Posts: 4535 | Location: Vacaville  | Registered: January 07, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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John, are you looking to build, or buy your engine?
Since you said "low cost", I suppose I might assume you are willing and able to build your own, (or have a buddy or a local shop that can work with you)?
As the other fellas suggested, you can build a rather mild BBC that will be easy on parts, and nothing exotic is needed.
Don't know what part of Cali you are located, or what shop rates are there, but here would be a basic build that should put your Camaro in the mid-10's at a reasonably low cost, (assuming you have nothing to start with at this point):
1. Mark IV 454 block from mid 70's pickup - Craigslist, FB, etc - Probably $300-700, depending on condition and whether it is a complete core, bare, short or long block. I highly suggest you try to find one complete, so you get the brackets, oil pan, covers, bolts, water pump, etc. And then you won't be constantly running to the hardware or parts store for bolts, etc. Preferably with 781 or 049 heads, (steel, open chamber, large oval ports). Forged crank a plus, but not likely.
2. Heads - Same as above, 049's or 781's. If budget allows, cut for 2.19/1.88 valves and some mild pocket porting, & bowl blending. Toss the exhaust valve rotators, have spring seats cut for 1.550" springs or larger. OR- Buy some used rectangle-port heads, such as 990's. Cost a bit more than ovals, but no mods needed, maybe just a valve job. If they are recently freshened up, you won't need to spend any more on machine work for them. Plan on adding a set of 1.7:1 roller rocker arms.
3. Crank & rods - Forged crank highly desirable, although I know a lot of 10 second cars are running cast pieces. You can sometimes find used GM units fairly reasonable on FB racer swap-meet pages, RJ, etc. GM "thumbprint" truck rods, (like what came with the above blocks), are excellent up to 700 HP. Just put ARP bolts in them, and have them resized.
4. Pistons - Preferably Forged, but possibly hypereutectic might work. Large dome for open chamber heads, shoot for around 12.5:1 compression. You can sometimes find deals on older style TRW/Speed-Pro pieces, check out Competition Products website, RJ, CL, ebay, etc.
5. Solid roller cam & lifters, .650-680" lift or better, 270-ish duration or a bit more will be fine. Springs to match.
6. Carb & Intake - You'll need at least an 850 carb, preferably a 1050. Used ones everywhere, some junk, many good. Get a complete one, (preferably from someone you know, or friend of a friend), that looks clean, and has been used within the past year or 2. And a used intake to match, Edelbrock Victor or Vic Jr, depending on if you go Dominator or 4150 style carb. Oval port or Rectangle/square port, to match your heads.
7. Ignition - For that build, you'll be fine with an older used MSD or Mallory ignition box and coil. Available everywhere for a couple hundred or less.
8. Add a decent fuel pump, headers, water pump, plugs & wires, and you're about ready to have some fun. The stock 5 quart oil pan and a good high-volume pump should be fine for your intended use, if budget permits, look for a good quality 7 quart pan from Milodon, Moroso, etc.

NOTES:
1. Don't be offended if your budget, knowledge, skills and experience are beyond what I described here.
2. This is a bare-bones, minimum BBC build for a 10 second car. If starting from scratch, the above build may set you back $3-5K or more, maybe less - depending on what items you may already have, how much assembly work you can do yourself, and how lucky you get with sourcing the parts. A couple thou more (or so) can get you some aluminum heads, better crank and rods, etc.
3. You can often find complete, fresh or fairly recent builds on some websites, FB pages, CL, etc. Some very similar to this. Sometimes for around $6K. Not a bad option if you don't have the time, space, or ability to build your own. But if you go this route, BEWARE, check it out, bring a friend who knows what to look at if you are unsure. What some dude calls "freshly rebuilt", could be a piece slapped together with a bunch of used, mis-matched, or worn out parts, then given a fresh coat of paint. Pop off the valve covers, and the pan. It needs to be spotlessly clean inside, not sitting uncovered and exposed in a dusty garage or barn and full of dirt. Don't buy anything if the guy spray painted the valve springs, or didn't bother to mask the exhaust ports, etc. Anyone willing to take those kind of time-saving shortcuts, didn't care enough to build YOUR engine properly.
Some machine shops turn out decent engines like these, to keep their guys working during slow periods. They are more likely to stand behind their work, and provide spec sheets, dyno sheets, etc. Also, a racer who has just bought himself a "bigger bullet", will frequently sell their existing engine for a bargain. One of those that is not "hurt" can be a great buy, even if it needs a freshen-up.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: FootbrakeJim,


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Posts: 1045 | Location: Farmersville, TX  | Registered: December 05, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by stk 758 BP!:
Bbc 468 rec port heads, good roller cam...


Agree!

quote:
...you only need 550 hp or so to run 10.50’s in a 3600 lb car.


Not where I come from, unless you want to keep the Super Stock RPM. 620-630 is what I'd need at that weight with a glide.

Any 12:1 468 with a roller cam should get you where you want to be.


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Posts: 3173 | Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN | Registered: March 18, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Hey Lenny.
I make a little over 620 427+70. 10.00. The Glide -so I agree it will be tougher. We were testing cams for a grinder...... car slowed to 10.50 no mater what we did so we pulled it and put it on the dyno, first pull 550, second third etc.,,! It just lost over 50 with the cam of the future.... sound familiar?? That’s where I based my numbers on and yes three speed. So 600 or more is easy with one of those motors. That was my point.


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Posts: 4535 | Location: Vacaville  | Registered: January 07, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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20+ years ago I had a 427 on gas that made about 550, and barely dipped into the 10s with a 4.88 gear. With the 4.56 it was 11-teens.

My current 468 on alcohol makes 660 and runs 10.20s for the most part. We're around 1000' actual altitude here, and a barometer reading over 29 is somewhat rare. I'm sure the requirements are lower on the coasts and the OP is somewhere in California.


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Posts: 3173 | Location: Inver Grove Heights, MN | Registered: March 18, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Lenny5160:
20+ years ago I had a 427 on gas that made about 550, and barely dipped into the 10s with a 4.88 gear. With the 4.56 it was 11-teens.

My current 468 on alcohol makes 660 and runs 10.20s for the most part. We're around 1000' actual altitude here, and a barometer reading over 29 is somewhat rare. I'm sure the requirements are lower on the coasts and the OP is somewhere in California.


I'm sure he can build 650 pretty easy or at least I hope so.
Not uncommon for a 30+ Baro here. Yeah So Cal I believe.. We have seen 400 below sea level at Sonoma.


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Posts: 4535 | Location: Vacaville  | Registered: January 07, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by stk 758 BP!:
Hey Lenny.
I make a little over 620 427+70. 10.00. The Glide -so I agree it will be tougher. We were testing cams for a grinder...... car slowed to 10.50 no mater what we did so we pulled it and put it on the dyno, first pull 550, second third etc.,,! It just lost over 50 with the cam of the future.... sound familiar?? That’s where I based my numbers on and yes three speed. So 600 or more is easy with one of those motors. That was my point.

Rpm band ?
 
Posts: 695 | Location: Bucks Co Pa | Registered: January 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by B.C.Malibu:
quote:
Originally posted by stk 758 BP!:
Hey Lenny.
I make a little over 620 427+70. 10.00. The Glide -so I agree it will be tougher. We were testing cams for a grinder...... car slowed to 10.50 no mater what we did so we pulled it and put it on the dyno, first pull 550, second third etc.,,! It just lost over 50 with the cam of the future.... sound familiar?? That’s where I based my numbers on and yes three speed. So 600 or more is easy with one of those motors. That was my point.



Rpm band ?


468 = 5000 - 7200
427 = 8300


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Posts: 4535 | Location: Vacaville  | Registered: January 07, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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