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| Milky oil?? | Login/Join |
DRR Pro |
Small block, larger carb. Staging at 150-155, usually picks up 20-22* in pass and will start to cool back down on return trip. Vacuum pump really helps too. | |||
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DRR Sportsman |
Another factor you need to consider when running methanol, is your crankcase / internal breather/ventilation/vacuum system, (if any). Also, milky oil can be caused by water in the oil, or alky, or (usually) a mixture of both. I don't know the science behind it, but there is no doubt that water is a significant by-product of methanol combustion. Even if your tune up is on the lean side, burning alky for fuel seems to produce plenty of water vapor, and some of it will find a way into your crankcase/valve covers/oil. You can do your best to limit the amount of it that gets in there with lean idle and tune-up, tight ring seal, etc. And then you can do your best to try and get rid of as much of it as possible, after it does enter your crankcase. Building heat is a huge factor. Running only breather vents on your valve covers does not purge vapors from inside your engine, no matter what fuel you burn. A PCV valve system would, but nobody runs them on race engines, probably because they disrupt the precision of a carefully calibrated fuel air mixture. Header Evacs pull some vacuum in your crankcase, but probably only at WOT and high RPM. A vacuum pump is probably the best way to get rid of most of the water and alcohol vapors. I am planning to add one after the season. Right now I have header evacs, and I still have a problem with milky oil. I realized earlier this year, that the primary cause, is my valve cover breathers and the header evac system they are plumbed to. They are the tall "mopar-style" breathers, and the internal oil separator design of them traps a lot of water, which condenses and then drips down inside my engine after it is shut off. They are secured to the valve covers with a large nut from underneath, so no easy way to remove them after a race, and purge or vent the crankcase. Then when you consider the entire evac system, with the long hoses to the collectors, and the anti-backfire valves in them, there is no way to get the water and alcohol vapors out of my engine, even if I heat it to 220* at the end of race day, unless I pull my valve covers off. (Which I would need to do after pulling the car into the trailer, not very convenient!). I am beginning to think these valve covers with no removable oil filler cap really suck. If they had one in each cover, I could pull them both, and run a shop vac on one side, pulling fresh dry air in through the other one. Even with a vacuum pump, I still think having the ability to open a vent on the other side of the engine and then run it for a minute to purge the contaminated air out of the engine at the end of the day would be a really good thing. Anyone know of good cast or fabricated BBC valve covers that have removable air-tight caps on them? I suppose a guy could weld an AN Bung in the valve cover on the opposite side of the engine from the one with the vac pump fitting, and just put a removable cap on it. (Another thing to remember to replace after you're done purging it).  Dan "Jim" Moore Much too young to feel this damn old!! | |||
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DRR S/Pro |
this is what I have learned to do. I also found that a small radiator is best to keep the heat regulated where I need it. HAVE THEY CALLED US YET ? THEY HAVE!!! | |||
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DRR Sportsman |
FWIW The byproduct of HP is heat. Anyone with a GAS carb pull a valve cover and wonder where the "milk" is coming from? Big heads and big valve covers are a convection oven which creates humidity which creates water and milk. Same thing gets blamed on alky too often. Dave Koehler - Koehler Injection - http://www.koehlerinjection.com Fuel Injection - Nitrous Charger - Nitrous Master Software - Balancing 99% of fuel injection problems are electric. | |||
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| DRR Sportsman |
Vacuum pump is the only consistent solution i've seen. Carb, injection, blown, have run vacuum pumps on all three with alky. Put a vacuum pump on it and optimize the tune as best as you can, but you'll never eliminate all of the milky oil problem till you put a vacuum pump on it. At least i never did. | |||
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DRR Pro |
THE BIGGEST CONTRIBUTOR ON MINE IS CONDENSATE FROM THE VALVE COVER.EVEN ON GAS WITH THE RIGHT AMBIENT AIR IT WILL MAKE WATER.ALKY USUALLY DOESNT MAKE ENOUGH HEAT TO COOK IT OUT.SORRY FOR CAPS honesty is the best policy,insanity is a better deffense 1.036, 6.16@ 224 | |||
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DRR S/Pro |
I checked the trasition slots before I put the carb on and I just checked them, not the problem. Spoke to Rupert, he said lean the idle screws until it stumbled them back out 1/4 turn. I've heard his carbs are rich on idle and I guess it's true. I'd say my problem is me and not building enough heat before during and after. Humidity is a big problem around here and yes I've seen water droplets on the inside of my valve covers and milky places on my stud girdles if I eave the car for any time parked in the garage, and that's been on gas. As most everyone has said heat is where it's at . | |||
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DRR Sportsman |
You could put one of these in...https://www.gzmotorsports.com/VCB101-oil-fill-cap.html
Bill Huntington GZMOTORSPORTS.com gzmotorsports.com/video/PRI2010.wmv | |||
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| DRR Sportsman |
https://www.speedwaymotors.com...ps-Short,231742.html Here is what you need. Anyone know of good cast or fabricated BBC valve covers that have removable air-tight caps on them? I just changed my oil last week before the race for the first time this year after starting on frash oil in the spring . Oil was clean but i was feeling guilty. I never crank the car up unless i can get the temp. up to 180* I warm it up about 30 minutes before the first time run and don't cool between rds. and warm it up to 200 when put in the trailer when done for the day. Runnig a SBC with a APD alky carb and a moroso 3 vane pump.This message has been edited. Last edited by: NFC, | |||
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DRR Top Comp |
A vacuum pump will help for several reasons but if it is too rich at idle and low RPM you are going to milk the oil. 1. Vacuum pump pulls excess moisture out of the crankcase. 2. Water and alcohol boil at lower temperature under a vacuum which also helps to remove moisture. I think both gas and alcohol have the potential to milk the oil but with gas it normally runs hot enough to evaporate it out. Plus alcohol naturally blends with water easily. Most all alcohol carbs are stupid fat at idle to cover up for poor squirter nozzles and pump shots. An alcohol carb will work when it is way fat but will milk the oil. Lean down the idle mixture. Do not think that a vacuum pump will resolve the issue of milking the oil. You will have wasted $1000 or so and still need to lean it down and get it good and warm at end of the day to remove the moisture. Or change the oil every week. I choose to lean it down. https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/ "Dunning-Kruger Effect" -a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge. Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue. 4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion | |||
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DRR S/Pro |
Couple things I have found, If you run a vacuum pump and have a vacuum regulator, run it between the valve cover and the pump. IMO, you don't want to pull outside air though your engine. First, there is dust and dirt in the air, secondly, depending on what the air is doing, you may be pulling in additional moisture. Put an oil temp gauge on your car. You would probably be surprised on how much effort it takes to get 180 degrees of oil temp. If you are only single hitting, I would be surprised if you are getting the oil hot enough to boil off the water. Double hitting, it takes 3 passes before it will get there if I don't help it. About an hour before my first time trial, I typically will plug in the oil warmer and get it to at least 100 degrees before I start it. Than I will warm the car up to about 200 degrees and let it heat soak. Make sure you motor is sealed up tight, you don't want it drawing in air, again IMO you want a sealed environment. Get very little water in the vacuum catch can, it it pulls around 14 inches of vacuum. I also send my oil in to get checked. Never shows any water. I am on alky, The only time I have ever seen it milk the oil was when I fired it up for a short period and not let it run through an entire heat cycle. But once I get it up to temp, the milk clears out. I try to avoid it at all cost though. Bill Simpkins 74 Nova SBC 406 3240 pounds Speierracing heads 60 1.27 (10/16) 1/8 6.03@111 (10/16) Best 9.87@131 on the rev limitor 1 Feb 2013 nova quarterpanelview wheelie FTI Converter www.speierracingheads.com | |||
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| DRR Pro |
What Banjo posted is the fact. Just because you warm the water doesn’t mean the oil is anywhere near warm. My car doesn’t move until the oil temp is 140* minimum. In the shutdown on the track my oil temp is in excess of 200*. I stage with water temp at 170*. sbc with mfi and evac. The oil analysis below is with samples of over 50 runs on each sample.  | |||
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| DRR Sportsman |
Stage 170-180. Shut down 210. ANY time engine is started must go to 210. Rupert carbs are rich. | |||
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| DRR S/Pro |
Okay if getting the oil hot enough to boil off the alcohol is required it makes me wonder just how much alcohol gets in the crankcase every pass. Can you ever tune lean enough that you don't have alcohol in the oil? Or would that be too lean and cause inconsistency? | |||
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DRR S/Pro |
Yes you can get your tune to where there isn't really any alcohol in the oil. Moisture is released from the combustion process is what milks the oil more than just purely alcohol. When you are really rich there isn't much heat to get rid of that moisture so it kind of overwhelms everything and goes to the pan. Alcohol evaporates at 148° so it's actually easier to get out but the water is what is harder to get rid of. When the tune is right things are more balanced to help get rid of it. You will get there. Curtis ____________________________ 2017 and 2018 Osage Casinos Tulsa Raceway Park No-Box Champion 2018 Div4 Goodguys Hammer award winner | |||
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| DRR Trophy |
Call Rupert’s I’m sure he will be able to fix your problem. | |||
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