Originally posted by Wooley: Here’s my take on the situation based on the reading I have done. The “we do not recommend dot5 fluid”, is a CYA by the manufacturer. Reason being, the manufacturer has no control over the installation or end user. Manufacturing also knows that mixing dot5 with dot3/4/5.1 will result in brake loss or failure. The manufacturer knows most people will be put off by the price of dot5 fluid and just use whatever is cheapest that can be had at the time. That’s my opinion on it and yes I know what it’s worth, no need to remind me. I was looking for an actual reason but I myself cannot find it.
DOT 5 and DOT 5.1 are about same cost and same boiling point. Use which ever one you want just do not mix them.
You may be right, manufacturers maybe CYA on the DOT 5 or they may have a good reason. Do not know or care. My thinking is if it was significantly better they would be recommending it and I am going with their recommendation.
I simply do not care which one or brand you use.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/ "Dunning-Kruger Effect" -a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.
Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.
4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
July 01, 2023, 12:07 PM
1320racer
Then stop reply idiot! You and the other idiot have NOTHING to add to this thread but your drivel. Further everyone of the regulars here also now know you’re a liar, a fraud who does NOT own that 40 year old almost new shyt box trailer or the Amish altered, they are not yours! worse yet YOU are responsible for hitting the engine because you think you are a tuner too
July 01, 2023, 12:29 PM
B KING
quote:
Originally posted by 1320 Keyboard Racer F...tard: Then stop reply idiot!
The only idiot is YOU Special EDiot, you're missing something on the end of reply.
2BKING
1980 Camaro Taking the Best Working Small Tire Shyt Box & making it Greater Than Before! 3000 lbs. Pump Gas 436
July 01, 2023, 09:14 PM
seabass
quote:
That leaves gas in the lines, which is compressible, leading to a soft pedal. In racing and performance-driving circles, this is known as brake fade, and it’s something drivers actively want to avoid. To drive as effectively and safely as possible, the driver must be confident the brakes will perform on lap 10 as they did on lap one.
This was my experience when I tried silicone fluid years ago...I was not a fan.
J.R. Baxter
""Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured ..but not everyone must prove they are a citizen."
2025 Miller Rolla Competition Engines ProCharger Hoosier Tires Abruzzi
July 02, 2023, 07:38 AM
1320racer
No soft pedal, no brake fade whatsoever with my cars or any of our friends and competitors that too use DOT5. Further, a “soft” pedal” is almost always due to air in the system and when it’s not, it’s a bad master cylinder. That said, the best pedal you’ll ever have is by using the Motive power bleeder.This message has been edited. Last edited by: 1320racer,
July 02, 2023, 08:33 AM
seabass
Changing the fluid it fixed it , and yes my bleeder works great.
J.R. Baxter
""Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured ..but not everyone must prove they are a citizen."
2025 Miller Rolla Competition Engines ProCharger Hoosier Tires Abruzzi
July 02, 2023, 08:35 AM
1320racer
As long as you think so but I’ve used it and it sucks, pun intended.
July 16, 2023, 07:39 PM
CHampshire
Update on this... I found the master cylinder for the hand brakes trashed, so I replaced it.
I called Moser and asked them about dot 5 fluid. The gentleman on the phone told me that dot 5 will make the seals and o-rings swell and eventually will cause the brakes to drag. He said that if I wanted to use dot 5 I need special o-rings and seals. I tried to buy them, but he said they don't sell them and to use dot 3 or 4.
Pads looked good, but will be replaced at the end of this season. I put fresh dot 4 in both systems, flushed and bled them. The motive products bleeder that Ed recommended made short work of the process and I was able to service the systems in about 10 mins each. I didn't even remove the rear wheels as I could easily get to the bleeder screws. The foot brake will be getting a new master cylinder as well at the end of this season. More for piece of mind than anything else.
The car will get fresh fluid at the start of each season from here on out. Ed is right, it's amazingly easy to service it and see how much it gets burnt. Especially if you compare what comes out to what you put in.
I was going to go the dot 5 route, even bought the fluid. I looked at the replacement rebuild kit for the calipers I have and for about 40 bucks more, you just buy calipers. I think I will just flush it every year from here on out and put the 1/2 hour of work in every year. It makes the most sense for me.
I think it may be a different story if you have always used dot 5 and don't care about rebuilding them every couple of seasons. My car was bought used so I am in a little different spot than Ed. To each their own and I appreciate all the feed back I got.
July 16, 2023, 08:22 PM
1320racer
Glad I was able to help and you saw with your own eyes what comes out isn't what went in.
That said, I standby what I have stated in this thread and others and that is all this nonsense about DOT5 causing swelling seals/o rings is BULLSHYT, hearsay and rumor. Oh it does happen, but not with our race car brake systems, rather in passenger cars running DOT 3 or 4 that has long been overheated and never changed, the result is a frozen caliper.
July 16, 2023, 09:42 PM
Big Steve
Dont ya just love it when there is a happy ending…
July 16, 2023, 10:58 PM
markemark
Update…. I purchased the Motive bleeder and catch container Ed has for Mopars, went to use it last Monday and it had two caps and only one gasket. Called Motive and they UPS the gasket (sent 2) the next day.
Watched the Motive video and did the initial pressure test and all was good. Put a quart of fluid in the container and pumped to 15 psi. Container sitting in the engine bay and get under the rear of the car to start bleeding. I see fluid dripping from under the engine. The crimped clamp on the container failed and was leaking brake fluid. Cleaned up the mess and replaced with a standard mini hose clamp.
Prior to attaching the Motive bleeder, I sucked all the fluid out of the master cylinder and put in fresh. I have MW calipers and started with the RR outer lower bleeder. It started to bleed out slow but picked up after a few seconds and removed 10 – 12 ozs. Moved to the adjacent lower bleeder and nothing came out. The bleeder was plugged up. I took all the bleeders out, the top ones were plugged and two of the lowers were plugged also. After I had everything cleaned and bled, I went to NAPA and bought some rubber bleeder caps. Lesson learned.
July 16, 2023, 11:24 PM
B KING
quote:
Originally posted by CHampshire: Update on this... I found the master cylinder for the hand brakes trashed, so I replaced it.
I called Moser and asked them about dot 5 fluid. The gentleman on the phone told me that dot 5 will make the seals and o-rings swell and eventually will cause the brakes to drag. He said that if I wanted to use dot 5 I need special o-rings and seals. I tried to buy them, but he said they don't sell them and to use dot 3 or 4.
Pads looked good, but will be replaced at the end of this season. I put fresh dot 4 in both systems, flushed and bled them. The motive products bleeder that Ed recommended made short work of the process and I was able to service the systems in about 10 mins each. I didn't even remove the rear wheels as I could easily get to the bleeder screws. The foot brake will be getting a new master cylinder as well at the end of this season. More for piece of mind than anything else.
The car will get fresh fluid at the start of each season from here on out. Ed is right, it's amazingly easy to service it and see how much it gets burnt. Especially if you compare what comes out to what you put in.
I was going to go the dot 5 route, even bought the fluid. I looked at the replacement rebuild kit for the calipers I have and for about 40 bucks more, you just buy calipers. I think I will just flush it every year from here on out and put the 1/2 hour of work in every year. It makes the most sense for me.
I think it may be a different story if you have always used dot 5 and don't care about rebuilding them every couple of seasons. My car was bought used so I am in a little different spot than Ed. To each their own and I appreciate all the feed back I got.
Glad you updated your thread!
Also, glad you stuck with what Moser & other manufacturers recommended.
2BKING- Reminder, I need to change to DOT 5.1!
1980 Camaro Taking the Best Working Small Tire Shyt Box & making it Greater Than Before! 3000 lbs. Pump Gas 436
July 17, 2023, 06:35 AM
1320racer
quote:
Originally posted by Wooley: Can anyone tell me exactly what the problem with dot5 silicone fluid is? I’m building a new car and brakes using Strange brakes. Even they can’t tell me why they don’t recommend it, just they don’t recommend it. Reading msds and recommendations on applications it appears that dot5 would be the best choice provided proper maintenance is kept. These cars are aggressively driven then put in storage sometimes for weeks. That’s follows the recommendation for dot5 fluid. So, again, what exactly is the problem?
quote:
Originally posted by 1320racer: Of course they cant because they too are regurgitating myth, rumor and hearsay first stated by someone 40 years ago that didn’t have a clue, maybe an engineer or manufacturer of only DOT3 at the time. Regardless, ]b]There is no issue, no problem and you are exactly correct, EVERYTHING about what we do with these cars is EXACTLY what DOT5 was intended to do.[/b] Use it without any concern or fear.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooley: Not looking for an argument just real facts.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooley: Here’s my take on the situation based on the reading I have done. The “we do not recommend dot5 fluid”, is a CYA by the manufacturer. Reason being, the manufacturer has no control over the installation or end user. Manufacturing also knows that mixing dot5 with dot3/4/5.1 will result in brake loss or failure. The manufacturer knows most people will be put off by the price of dot5 fluid and just use whatever is cheapest that can be had at the time. That’s my opinion on it and yes I know what it’s worth, no need to remind me. I was looking for an actual reason but I myself cannot find it.
End of discussion, use what you want but there is NO issue using DOT5 in bracket car's brake systems. NONE, never was, never will be!!
July 17, 2023, 08:34 AM
BG7X77
I wonder how you would tell if, in extreme heat, you'd encountered brake drag. I think it would be relatively difficult to feel. I assume this would occur in road racing more than anything with prolonged use and high track temperatures and may be the reason that manufacturers shy away from it, I would have to assume they sell a lot more of those brakes than anything.
BG
July 17, 2023, 10:37 AM
B KING
quote:
Originally posted by CHampshire: To each their own and I appreciate all the feed back I got.
The important thing is, the OP got all the feedback needed to make decisions with his brake system!
I really didn't pay attention to the DOT 5.1 specs until this thread. I will change the fluid out & continue with my preventative brake maintenance program.
2BKING
1980 Camaro Taking the Best Working Small Tire Shyt Box & making it Greater Than Before! 3000 lbs. Pump Gas 436
July 17, 2023, 04:56 PM
WHOMPWHOMP
quote:
Originally posted by WHOMPWHOMP:
quote:
Originally posted by 434 olds:
quote:
Originally posted by WHOMPWHOMP: Please don’t run DOT 5….
Why? I cant wait to hear this one.
Simple it’s not made for it….every brake manufacturer will tell you not to run it…Call TBM they tested it makes orings swell for one thing…An yes my UNDERCOVER came with it an brakes sucked till I changed it out…Kurt even knew it wasn’t great….more worried about f ing up somebody’s powdercoat..
July 17, 2023, 05:00 PM
1320racer
it does NOT make the O rings swell..FACT!
July 17, 2023, 05:15 PM
B KING
quote:
Originally posted by 1320 Keyboard Racer: End of discussion
The discussion is still alive!
2BKING
1980 Camaro Taking the Best Working Small Tire Shyt Box & making it Greater Than Before! 3000 lbs. Pump Gas 436
July 17, 2023, 05:48 PM
Big Steve
quote:
Originally posted by Big Steve: Dont ya just love it when there is a happy ending…
Well it was a happy ending for the OP, not so much for the thread
July 17, 2023, 07:56 PM
WHOMPWHOMP
quote:
Originally posted by WHOMPWHOMP:
quote:
Originally posted by CHampshire: Hey guys, it's time to service the brakes on my dragster. What is everyone using for pads and fluid? I want to go ahead and put fresh fluid in it as well.
I want an aggressive pad but not anything that is going to chew up the rotors every year. I don't hold a tenth in the 1/8 and slide the rear tires or anything like that, but I'm looking for something more aggressive than what I have now.
I believe it has all strange stuff on it now, but that doesn't really matter to me as long as I can mix and match brands and keep the rotors and calipers I have.
Thanks in advance for the suggestions.
Order a bottle of brake fluid from every manufacturer….you WILL NOT receive a bottle of DOT 5 from any of them…
