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DRR Pro
posted
Present sbc is 3 yrs with 490 runs now. 388 w/ 3.625 stroke, 690 hp. Dart Little M Comp, Compstar crank / rods, 14-1. Crower Shaft rockers, PAC springs .665 / .635 cam lift lashed. All 1/8 mile racing, 7300 rpm max using methanol.

I have another engine that is a duplicate to the above but uses the Dart SHP model block. This engine had 500+ runs in 4 yrs, sat as my spare for the past 3 yrs and was rebuilt to short block spring 2021. The rebuilt heads will go back on prior to install.

When the SHP was disassembled, they showed me the bearings that looked very good along with other internals. They said I could have easily run these twice the distance.

My intention this year is to continue with the Little M in the car now. Still makes same ET.

My Question is….. How long would /do you go between rebuilds?? Anyone here run something comparable to as much as 1000 runs?
 
Posts: 2517 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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the concern is the rods and back in the day, Tracy Dennis told me they were putting 400 runs max on chinese manley rods before they were swapped out.
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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The rod life itself isnt as much of concern as the rod bolt life never failed a rod just the bolt this was on my Howards sport rods now it gets bolts "arp2000" every rebuild even with the Olivers in it now you have plenty of runs on it rebuild soon. I never go more than 3 seasons so maybe 600 passes tops


The difference between ignorance and stupidity. Ignorance is lack of knowledge. Stupidity is the inability to learn. Don't be stupid
 
Posts: 425 | Location: des moines iowa | Registered: January 10, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of banjo
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My last 406 I put over a 1000 runs on it. Dart little, compstar crank, ultra rods, spinning it 7200, it made 750 on the dyno . Lost a rod, but put that on me as I had a weeping head gasket. Had one race left in the season before I planned to pull it out to freshen and it didn't make it past the first burnout. Best I can tell I lost clamping force on the head gasket which let water into the chamber.

Other then needing some rings, everything looked really good.

I was actually in the process of building its twin which is in my car now.

I know for me, the rods are one place I would never skimp on if your trying to extend it run life.


Bill Simpkins
74 Nova
SBC 406
3240 pounds
Speierracing heads

60 1.27 (10/16)
1/8 6.03@111 (10/16)
Best 9.87@131 on the rev limitor 1 Feb 2013


nova

quarterpanelview

wheelie

FTI Converter
www.speierracingheads.com

 
Posts: 1830 | Location: San Angelo | Registered: March 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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^^^^^^^ Good info Bill. The Ultra rods are rated 1500 hp, have L19 bolts and a better choice for sure.

The Compstar line I’m using is 700 HP rated as is the SHP engine. I’d like to go 2 more yrs/ 900+ total runs in the Little M and replace the entire rotating assembly at rebuild.
 
Posts: 2517 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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I've been in a near endless debate with race buddies regarding this. I have a SBC going 6.20's in a 2500 lb car. I think I am going to just leave it in there until it breaks. I can find a short block used or new and be back racing by the time I can freshen one up. It's risk for sure. If it was some odd ball combination that was hard to get parts for I would feel different.

I might replace the lifters when I feel sorry for them, but I'm not pushing the motor real hard, so we will see!
 
Posts: 292 | Location: Midwest  | Registered: January 12, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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As of 12/31/2021
3200 lb all steel door car
350 gen 1 GM block 4 bolt
GM alum heads
Weiand 144 blower
Comp valve train
sealed pro pistons
stock rods
steel crank
1185 runs
ave C/R 215
ave leakdown 98%
Oil pan been off twice to check bearings, put right back on. Have run VR1 oil its whole life.
 
Posts: 300 | Location: Nevada | Registered: February 01, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR S/Pro
Picture of banjo
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Opinions may vary, but I am of the opinion that very rarely things just break. I think if you are paying attention, majority of the time, you can catch things before they get expensive.

This is just me, Very rarely, do rods just break. Usually there is something that causes it. You not turning extreme rpms,so assuming things were assembled correctly, should give you a long service life. I don't know that I would change out the rotating assemble just because. If it is all checked out and everything is within spec, why change it. In my mind it would prove to be durable. Why go into it unless it gives you a reason. Mileage may very with others.

Things I do/have done to help longevity.

I run a amsoil bypass oil filter setup. It has two filters, one is a standard flow oil filter and the other is a bypass filter. The standard filter goes down to 20 microns and the bypass goes down to 2 microns. Just really helps remove alot of those wear metals that are like sandpaper to lifter bearings. Knock on wood, but I have never had a lifter problem.

Side note, stay away from the "race" oil filters. The wix racing flows a ton of oil, way beyond the capacity of your typically oiling system. The flow comes at a cost of filtration. They filter down to 60 microns, which is about .0023. Most of your bearing clearances are in that range. I don't know about you, but I don't want particles that big going though my bearings.

I always have 100+ degrees of water/oil temp. I have an oil and water heater.

I run about 100 laps per oil change. I send in a sample to test wear metal levels. What is nice about this, is once you establish a baseline, If you see a spike in something, you now to start looking at things closely. Everytime I saw a spike, something was wrong. I showed trace amounts of water my previous test before I lost the head gasket.

Pay attention to fluid levels. Had I paid attention, I would have saw my coolant overflow was low which should have been a red flag.

Wish you the best of luck!


Bill Simpkins
74 Nova
SBC 406
3240 pounds
Speierracing heads

60 1.27 (10/16)
1/8 6.03@111 (10/16)
Best 9.87@131 on the rev limitor 1 Feb 2013


nova

quarterpanelview

wheelie

FTI Converter
www.speierracingheads.com

 
Posts: 1830 | Location: San Angelo | Registered: March 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Good Advice. I always wondered about the race filters.. I don't run them, I just get the reg wix from the local O'Reilly's. I'm going through the traps at 7000 in the 1/4 so I didn't know if that was even considered a "race" motor..
 
Posts: 292 | Location: Midwest  | Registered: January 12, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Have used Wix 56061R for years on my small block -no by-pass race filter with ether dry sump set-up or wet pan 55-85 lbs. oil pressure no problems with bearings. Dart block Moroso anti cavitation pump on wet pan. Peterson pump on dry sump 10-30 valvoline synthetic always.


The difference between ignorance and stupidity. Ignorance is lack of knowledge. Stupidity is the inability to learn. Don't be stupid
 
Posts: 425 | Location: des moines iowa | Registered: January 10, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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quote:
Originally posted by qtrrcr:
As of 12/31/2021 3200 lb all steel door car 350 gen 1 GM block 4 bolt
GM alum heads Weiand 144 blower Comp valve train sealed pro pistons stock rods
steel crank 1185 runs ave C/R 215 ave leakdown 98%
Oil pan been off twice to check bearings, put right back on. Have run VR1 oil its whole life.


That’s impressive and what I was looking to read. 1/8 or 1/4 mile? How much HP do you know/ estimate that you have?
 
Posts: 2517 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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quote:
Originally posted by banjo: Things I do/have done to help longevity.


Good advice Bill. I use a 21 micron Wix 51601, change @ 60 runs, always cut the filter, have the 10w30 oil sample analyzed 1x a yr. I use the stock coolant overflow transparent container with a mark that I reference at the start/ during event day for how full the coolant system is. I too found a leaking head gasket using this method. Always have 140* minimum oil temp prior to making a pass. After reading your results, I’m going to continue what I’m doing and try making 1000 runs my new stopping point.
 
Posts: 2517 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
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I agree with Bill on the oil filters. The Race filters do not filter small particles so they do not clog up as easy and will flow oil.
What I do is use TWO of the very large Chevrolet truck filters in parallel so the oil only goes through one. With a huge amount of surface and very fine filtration you do not lose any oil pressure and get much better filtration.

On the original question if you are not turning it any more than 7300 RPM and have a relatively small cam like that I would change valve springs and continue to run it if you want.

One of the keys with alcohol which you may already know is make sure you get it good and hot at end of day before you put it in the trailer to evaporate all of the water out of the oil. Or you must change the oil often.

I also think an air filter will help the life of the motor if you can run one. And that can shorten time until you need to rebuild.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4090 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Footloose
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I believe Banjo is a straight shooter. You are more methodical checking things than most. Not worthy I have seen friends that would not make more than 20 passes on Banjo's bottom end. They would do 8K burn outs You could sell your motor to me and I might put another 1000 passes on it and still be fine. Some people can break an anvil.I turned down many builds for folks simply I fired them 1st. If you can make good bracket power at 6500 rpm or less/They can last a long time. Many yrs ago I built a nice sbc for Nitrous the dude was told to sneak up on the tune. No more then a 200 shot till we had info. He hit with 400 and boom. I was like don;t bring it back
 
Posts: 1921 | Location: in a van down buy the river | Registered: September 07, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
Picture of Footloose
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Anyone running the ac pf 1218 oil filter? Not saying it is the best but done me good.
 
Posts: 1921 | Location: in a van down buy the river | Registered: September 07, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Mark, run mostly 1/4 mile, but lately running more 1/8 mile, seems like thats what is getting more popular, like the big money races. I dont mind cause it saves me gas. I personally dont think it saves any time to complete a run as you are going slower to the return road from the 1/8 mark, but Im sure it saves on wear and tear, hence less oil downs. It runs high 10's/low 7's Dont know how much HP, actually never cared, as long as it runs what I want it to, and doesnt blow up.
 
Posts: 300 | Location: Nevada | Registered: February 01, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of fuzzy dice
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I had always run BBC's...I recently switched over to an S-10 with a 388 SBC...runs 6.20's...I change oil/filter at about 70 passes using 10/30 and Wix filter...we always pulled my motor at around 300 passes for a freshen up...overkill, maybe, but I have never had problems...I run 1/8 mile, do my burnouts at 5,000 rpm and shift at 6800 rpm...
 
Posts: 1279 | Location: Florida (FL) | Registered: June 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Goob
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quote:
Originally posted by Footloose:
Anyone running the ac pf 1218 oil filter? Not saying it is the best but done me good.


I'm leary of the AC products nowdays. Seems it's mostly Chinese junk.
NAPA Gold filters here. (Wix)

I have to use a short filter for my headers, and now there is an even shorter filter, NAPA 7099


"Freshen up" is a phrase I laugh at.
There's no such thing.
How you going to pick the parts that you think will be okay for another trip?
If you do replace parts, are the new ones as good as the old ones?

I've almost come to the point where I feel like you run it until it has bad leakdown, it slows down, or you run over the crankshaft.
Obviously, if there's trouble brewing, some attention to your basic conditions will usually reveal it before it's a catastrophe.
Most engine failures start at the valves and valve train parts. Mine anyway.


"Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular."
Dave Cook
N375
 
Posts: 1716 | Location: Indy | Registered: November 21, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of banjo
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I 100% agree with Goob. I don't like to go into it, unless it gives you a reason.

At this level of racing, I tend to defer to proven seasoned parts vs new.


Bill Simpkins
74 Nova
SBC 406
3240 pounds
Speierracing heads

60 1.27 (10/16)
1/8 6.03@111 (10/16)
Best 9.87@131 on the rev limitor 1 Feb 2013


nova

quarterpanelview

wheelie

FTI Converter
www.speierracingheads.com

 
Posts: 1830 | Location: San Angelo | Registered: March 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Big Steve
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I have known a few to just run the engine until it blows up then buy a brand new one. They say it save a bunch of money over the years on "freshen ups"
 
Posts: 2463 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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