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Methanol..faster,more consistent with cooler engine or hotter engine??
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DRR Pro
Picture of Eman
posted
Spinoff from my other thread about thermostats.
Point was brought up about methanol performance on a hot motor vs cooler motor. My experience is very limited with methanol so I'm here to learn. What has been your experience?
 
Posts: 1471 | Location: E TN | Registered: February 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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I've staged from 145° to 180° and saw no differance with my slow door car. SBC alum head with carb and toilet. I try to start burnout at 160° but don't worry if it's not.

I always heat soak so engine and oil is up to temp. I've towed to the track with car running on the trailer if running late!

I had a SBC with CI Bowtie heads, that I think was more consistent with water temp being consistent.



Cool
 
Posts: 619 | Location: Atco, NJ | Registered: March 14, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of banjo
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I have always run mine the same at m120 does. For me it was always a given that i was giving up some power, but your thread has got me curious to see how much. Next weekend i plan to make a cool pass in the 120-130 with hot oil, then come back around to where i usually run it.

I do think there is more to this equation than just engine heat. I think if you are jetted rich, it would cater to the hotter temps and vice versa. Also how well your carb is calibrate can play a role also.

I think consistancy is more about how well you are at keeping you consistant. Like last time out, 10 passes over 10 hours off the tbrake, sixty moved .008. This is starting at 5 in the afternoon, and ending at 3 in the morning.

I think it will be hard to find a definitive answer here.


Bill Simpkins
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Posts: 1830 | Location: San Angelo | Registered: March 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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quote:
I've towed to the track with car running on the trailer if running late!

Now that is multi tasking!


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6413 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
Picture of adv ET 266
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At some point when going rounds, controlling oil temp is the most important variable for bracket consistency. Do this by not being afraid to use methanol and gas prime to make huge changes in water temp.



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Posts: 12173 | Location: 33463 | Registered: February 04, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
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Big droplets, call for warmer engine temps.

The better homogenized the fuel droplets, off the bottom of the throttle blades, the cooler you run the temp.

I know people with BLP carbs, who run at 130 degree's.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
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I also know a couple people who took BLP carbs off, because they didn't think of starting at 130 degree's, doubled entered.

Who thought the carb ran warm. Depends where you start, right?

That cost em several thousand dollars.

Monkey see, monkey do.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Trophy
Picture of Paul Dilley
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G,day,
For mine, more hp on the dyno at 180 vs colder, at the track faster at 180 vs colder.
Thats keeping oil temp at a minimum of 160F.
Everything done on the dyno was keeping oil temps constant,
Same deal with a few different carbs,
apd, blp, and the best by far a carb by Dale Cubic at cfm.
Consistant and predictable
Cheers
 
Posts: 42 | Location: gracemere, qld, Australia | Registered: February 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
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Years ago on my car I learned it was faster when water temp was up there higher. So I always like to have water temp up at 180* on the line.

My thinking is if the car runs faster hotter then that is where engine is most efficient and would also probably be more consistent there.
Your car may be different, you would just have to test and see.

Now I have made changes since then and it may be good to do some more testing to see if anything has changed there.

I do try to control all of the variables to help keep it as consistent as possible and I believe a Thermostat is a help in doing that.


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Posts: 4039 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Roger McGinnis
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All fuels have a flash point. While engine temp plays a role, so does compression. A higher compression engine has a lot better chance of full burn than a low compression cool motor. There's a reason that a cold gas engine starts easier than a Methanol burner.



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Posts: 559 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: January 16, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Alaskaracer
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Mine doesn't like to run below 130, and seems to run best at about 180-190. Might just be due to size of my engine and volume of fuel going in....I've ran as cold as 140-160 and it does slow down just a bit....overall consistency doesn't seem to change though....


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Posts: 1492 | Location: Back home in Alaska! | Registered: February 13, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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I had a stack injected bbc and started out with the water temp gauge in the bottom of the block. Car would move .05 for no reason at the same temp.

Finally made a provision for a temp sender at the intake water outlet and realized it was moving 20+ degrees there while the bottom of the block stayed the same. When this car was good, I knew how much I was holding by whether the water outlet read 160 or 165 when I rolled in to prestage.
 
Posts: 931 | Location: my own little world | Registered: July 20, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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I shared my thoughts on the other thread, but here they are again:

Tech artiles from Reher Morrison back abut 10-15 years ago provided some data and observations he saw on the dyno showing motors were best in the 130 degree range vs being in the 180 range. I couldn't find the article to reference so my numbers aren't exact, but you get the point for purposes of this conversation its cooler versus hotter. I know RM is primarily gasoline and we are really having this conversation about methanol, but i've seen exactly what he has in multiple trips to the dyno with multiple combos. 555, 598, 615 conventional style cylinder headed, Methanol Injected motors over the past 20 or so years. Also have data that shows the same from the racetrack. They run better (faster and consistent) for me at 130 to 140 staging temps than 180 range.

Just my experience sea level racing, various weather conditions, BBC's all Injected on Methanol. I don't like carburetors, so i have ZERO experience in that space.
 
Posts: 384 | Location: Pride, La | Registered: April 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
Picture of PineApple Express Racing
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Ok let's toss out the carb type and size. Let's say Temps? With a door car and 632" Ford with a Wilson 4500 TB, fuel injection on meth. How does that affect Temps and run duplicate numbers with what temps?
 
Posts: 113 | Location: Las Vegas USA | Registered: July 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Trophy
Picture of Luvtruck
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quote:
Originally posted by Triple Nickel:
I shared my thoughts on the other thread, but here they are again:

Tech artiles from Reher Morrison back abut 10-15 years ago provided some data and observations he saw on the dyno showing motors were best in the 130 degree range vs being in the 180 range. I couldn't find the article to reference so my numbers aren't exact, but you get the point for purposes of this conversation its cooler versus hotter. I know RM is primarily gasoline and we are really having this conversation about methanol, but i've seen exactly what he has in multiple trips to the dyno with multiple combos. 555, 598, 615 conventional style cylinder headed, Methanol Injected motors over the past 20 or so years. Also have data that shows the same from the racetrack. They run better (faster and consistent) for me at 130 to 140 staging temps than 180 range.

Just my experience sea level racing, various weather conditions, BBC's all Injected on Methanol. I don't like carburetors, so i have ZERO experience in that space.


My smallblock is faster at a lower temp on alcohol than it is up around 180.
 
Posts: 242 | Location: Vanceboro NC | Registered: February 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of rs72z
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I think your tune up also comes into play as to what water temp works the best. On my 468 with a terminator i haven't seen any difference from 160-180.
 
Posts: 206 | Location: texas | Registered: November 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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To the OP. The difference in being faster using 130* verses 180* is less than 0.05 on methanol. Everyone knows faster doesn’t win ET bracket races. But a well tuned fuel system on methanol running 160+* will produce the most consistent times during an event guaranteed.

I’ve seen enough racers switch from gas to methanol with a fuel system that now runs 140* have the same problems. Lack of heat and consistency. Many go back to gas. Wonder why………

I’ve never owned a carb and never will. I’ve never run anything but methanol and will never switch. I got rid of my MFI last month and never going back.
 
Posts: 2481 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Eman
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Yeah, I'm the guy that switched from gas to methanol, not that I have a fuel or cooling system that runs 140*, I'm the guy with the gas mentality so I had more of a problem making it hot. I'm figuring out the heat thing and my car doesn't have a problem building and keeping heat, especially with the thermostat. When I pull the motor I'll install a pan with a temperature sensor so I'll have a better handle on oil temp.
 
Posts: 1471 | Location: E TN | Registered: February 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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I Have run alky since 1992. Most all bbc and one small block. Small block was 388 and big blocks 454 thru 572. On alky, Carbs and Rons injection. Rupert carbs, C&S, BoLaws, Holley 950 out of box, and APD. Im with M120 only just a little lower but not much as I like to hit the burn box at 150. Stage at about 160-165 and let it eat. I do however try to keep the oil temp at least 160 at stage and comming up the return road it will get 175- 180. If sitting along time between rounds I will start motor on lean out with fan and water pump running to keep oil temp up. The biggest thing I will see with alky is a run after say 7-8 pm at night when the gas cars pick up and alky will slow just a tic. There are people smarter than me that might chime in on this. Some combos do it and some do not. I do not keep great records but I am usually ready for the .001 dial up. Someone on here said oil temp is important and I tend to agree with them. Also as someone has stated the droplets or atomazation probably pays a part in this. For years I would go down to where Mike Rietow lives and race 3 tracks in Nov.(1/4 mile at the time) from last time shot (afternoon) to first round I would dial it up .001-.002 and be fine. HUMIDITY is what I would go by but again there are people smarter than I am and will know about WATER GRAINS and DEW point. I am old and a thread like this if the right knowledged people chime in can help or get us to think about what we may not know. I just remembered I drove a car for a guy I do not know how big the motor was (Mopar dragster 7.75 1/4 e.t.) with enderle injection and he had it so it would stage at 145 and heck I was like ok its your car. Well it repeated like crazy. Now that was an track that we raced on Sunday,started at 1:00 ish and were done by 7:00 so not much day to late night.
 
Posts: 318 | Location: ohio | Registered: June 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of rusty
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it does seem like lower compression and medium to lower hp is more critical to to temps


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Posts: 1416 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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