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DRR Sportsman
Picture of Quick Dawg
posted Hide Post
Why would you want to use the Grid as a delay box?
 
Posts: 166 | Location: Salt Lake City | Registered: January 16, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Quick Dawg:
Why would you want to use the Grid as a delay box?


First, Grid is not a delay box. Unlike a delay box, Grid has no timed control of when the Launch input that is tied to the transbrake solenoid is de-activated.

When a delay box is used to activate a timed output after the delay time has timed out, it needs to be reset if this timer or other timers are active and the Push-button Interrupt Time for DD or Transbrake Lockout feature for K&R are programmed.

Unlike your delay box, Grid can be programmed to output timed functions and not have them activate if the car is not making a run and the engine is at idle. Although Grids Time from Launch Timer is running, activating the Launch input resets Grid when the engine RPM is below the programmed launch setting.

When programming Timed Outputs in Grid, one would also Enable and program the RPM Switch along with the Time Switch, so that the Output would only active on time when the engine rpm is exceeding launch rpm.

Because Grid can control Outputs after Launch, it can also be used as a TB solenoid Lockout during the run. Unlike a Delay Box that enables this feature once it times out, Grid will not enable it until the car is actually making a run and the engine rpm is greater than the programmed Launch rpm setting. A delay box needs to be manually reset if this feature is accidentally activated and running while on the starting line. This includes any other timed outputs being controlled by the delay box.

When my delay box is in my car, it controls the delayed release from TB button release and bump down input. If I accidently cycle the TB button, the Delay Box will be reset in the time it takes to de-energize the TB solenoid output which is 1.030 delay for me. Now I’m ready to continue whatever I was doing when the TB button was pushed.

When I remove the delay box to no box race, all these timer (and rpm) features that Grid is controlling are still being activated. And because I have a 1+2 TB valve body I find this to be a better control of the Lockout safety feature.
 
Posts: 2528 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Quick Dawg
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Mark if I am not mistaken the TB lock out is a simple setting in the Grid now, which I use along with a total run time out. The issue with using the Grid for timed functions is after launch there is no user control unless external switches are included in the circuit, which also has to be done with the delay box, but the big hang up is the time can’t be changed in the lanes. With a delay box they can. Using a SLE and TS with external switches gives you a big range of control that you just can’t get with a Grid and the driver can interrupt the timing process during the run. Food for thought.
 
Posts: 166 | Location: Salt Lake City | Registered: January 16, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Quick Dawg:
Mark if I am not mistaken the TB lock out is a simple setting in the Grid now, which I use along with a total run time out. The issue with using the Grid for timed functions is after launch there is no user control unless external switches are included in the circuit, which also has to be done with the delay box, but the big hang up is the time can’t be changed in the lanes. With a delay box they can. Using a SLE and TS with external switches gives you a big range of control that you just can’t get with a Grid and the driver can interrupt the timing process during the run. Food for thought.


The Grid Launch Rev Limiter “Latch Enabled” Only keeps Grid from Re-setting the Launch Rev Limiter and restarting the Time from Launch Timer during a run. This does Not keep the TB solenoid from energizing. That is done using a relay and Grid Output Switch programming in my car.

I understand the SLE and those that make last second changes prior to leaving the staging area. But for those that do not race a dedicated box only vehicle using Grid imo is better choice to control all programmable output functions.

My netbook is always in the car and a change in programming can be less than 1 minute to complete if necessary.
 
Posts: 2528 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of David Covey
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by markemark:

If you used a MSD Grid ignition you would not need to look for a reset button on a delay box.


How does the grid control the delay box?

Dave


"It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance." -Thomas Sowell
 
Posts: 3314 | Location: American By Birth Texan By The Grace Of God  | Registered: April 29, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of TomR
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I believe Mark was referring to it being unnecessary to use the reset button on the delay box since all timed functions and TB lockout would be controlled by the grid.


72 Nova "Hooptie"
 
Posts: 761 | Location: Hanover, MD | Registered: June 20, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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Tom is correct. Grid is not controlling the Delay Box. What you are doing is assigning the TB solenoid lockout feature to Grid and not using this feature in the Delay Box.

Why? Because as I stated previous, using this method in Grid with a delay box allows for you to cycle the TB button and after the delay box releases the TB solenoid (your delay time) you are then able to move your car and cycle the TB solenoid again as many times as needed. Unlike your delay box that needs to be reset once it starts this lockout time feature, OR timers to control other devices, Grid will only allow this lockout feature or timer outputs to run when the car is actually making the run.

And the advantage for the racer that competes in both box and no-box, is that all these programmed features work the exact same with the box removed.

So how is this accomplished? What you are doing is using the N/C contact of a relay to feed the fused +12v to the TB button on your steering wheel. Because the relay is on the incoming +12v side of the TB button it is N/Ihra legal in no-box.

With Grid Output Switch you are activating the relay when the car is making a run. Because the relay is activated, there will not be any +12v at the TB button. Pushing the TB button will not produce any +12 to the delay box or the TB solenoid.

I use this method with Grid in both box and no-box in my car, and activate the relay 0.02 and 5000 rpm after launch and run this for 9 seconds of duration.

In the photo the switch 3-136 controls TB Lockout. On (signal high) means no +12v at the TB button.

 
Posts: 2528 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
Picture of Quick Dawg
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Mark - It is really hard to carry any type of computer in an altered or dragster LOL. But I get what you are doing. Thanks.
 
Posts: 166 | Location: Salt Lake City | Registered: January 16, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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Here’s a follow up on an incident this weekend that applies to delay box TB lockouts.

A racer friend that was driving a dragster for another team was bumping into the stage beam when he accidentally bumped the TB button and locked him out after it timed out as he staged. While looking for the reset the tree activated and he was stuck on the line not able to have the TB or 2-step activate.

Fortunate for him, his opponent broke out by 003 and he idled down the track crossing in 21 seconds at 37 mph for the win.

Some delay boxes have a TB Pause feature that allow you to program the amount of time the TB will actually set from the time the PB button is actually pushed. Using this feature could also be a good idea for traveling the pits or return road with a delay box.
 
Posts: 2528 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
Picture of Dead On
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Mark was that Terry Sullivan that did the in Topeka ??
 
Posts: 73 | Location: Texas | Registered: March 18, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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quote:
Originally posted by Dead On:
Mark was that Terry Sullivan that did the in Topeka ??


Happened at Byron on Saturday and that person lost in the $2500 combo finals.
 
Posts: 2528 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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I have used DD/Biondo mega 500s. I don't have any problem making last minute adjustments. Large display, well backlit, easy push button use. Tried the K&R in the new car and didn't like the toggle switches. Both are great boxes with very similar functions. It comes down to personal preference.
 
Posts: 12 | Location: Texas  | Registered: October 05, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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