quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:

quote:

Originally posted by BG7X77:
Ok....school me.....I have considered alcohol. I have an aluminum cell and thought it was a must I remove it and convert to a plastic Jaz or equivalent. ...BIG STEVE says he hasn't had an issue and runs aluminum.....thoughts?

You're looking for problems, unless the drain the fuel.

What are Russell fittings made of?

11 years running Alky with the same fuel system and i have never drained the system and my fitting dont look like that ... just saying.

quote:

Originally posted by RacerVX54:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:

quote:

Originally posted by BG7X77:
Ok....school me.....I have considered alcohol. I have an aluminum cell and thought it was a must I remove it and convert to a plastic Jaz or equivalent. ...BIG STEVE says he hasn't had an issue and runs aluminum.....thoughts?

You're looking for problems, unless the drain the fuel.

What are Russell fittings made of?

11 years running Alky with the same fuel system and i have never drained the system and my fitting dont look like that ... just saying.

I've never drained mine either.

I've been running Alky twice as long as you, so give your fittings a little more time to deteriorate, or go take it all apart now, and look.

If you have the same system for 11 years and it's not leaking,why would you take it apart? I don't think you've taken it apart,which means you don't know what your fittings look like.

If methanol didn't deteriorate this fitting, what did?

The point I was making is, if you run a aluminum cell, drain it or you're looking for problems.

I used the fitting as evidence, methanol deteriorates aluminum.

Technically, the methanol is hygroscopic, meaning absorbs moisture from the air. Methanol plus water is a corrosive mixture to all soft metals. Bad results are a function of time, humidity,and exposed unprotected soft metal. Corrosion is worst on dead legs that never see any flow. Like a pressure gauge at the end of a long hose.
It's all good till it eats your bowls, or fittings. You can leave fuel in your system as long as you like, till it sneaks up and bites your wallet.

RIP

Interesting topic ........... Ran alcohol for the first time for an entire season last year. Rupert carb,belt drive pump and an 20 gallon aluminum Aeromotive fuel cell. Bought all our alky from Alan Glatt with lube and our brand new fuel cell is corroded to hell after one season !!!! Fuel filter was packed with crap, I'm assuming from the corrosion. At the end of the season I drained all the alky and converted it over to gas, that's when I noticed all the corrosion.

What are we doing wrong

With that said I'm sticking with alky and will either anodize or go plastic on the fuel cell in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by HS professor:
Interesting topic ........... Ran alcohol for the first time for an entire season last year. Rupert carb,belt drive pump and an 20 gallon aluminum Aeromotive fuel cell. Bought all our alky from Alan Glatt with lube and our brand new fuel cell is corroded to hell after one season !!!! Fuel filter was packed with crap, I'm assuming from the corrosion. At the end of the season I drained all the alky and converted it over to gas, that's when I noticed all the corrosion.

What are we doing wrong

With that said I'm sticking with alky and will either anodize or go plastic on the fuel cell in the future.

20 gallons? Geesh, I hope nothing ever goes wrong, you'll need the fire department to come out to the track, to put it out!

Madness!!

We have a 1.75 gallon in our heads up car.

Ya wanna carry as little fuel as possible, for obvious reasons. Especially in the nose.

quote:

Originally posted by HS professor:
Interesting topic ........... Ran alcohol for the first time for an entire season last year. Rupert carb,belt drive pump and an 20 gallon aluminum Aeromotive fuel cell. Bought all our alky from Alan Glatt with lube and our brand new fuel cell is corroded to hell after one season !!!! Fuel filter was packed with crap, I'm assuming from the corrosion. At the end of the season I drained all the alky and converted it over to gas, that's when I noticed all the corrosion.

What are we doing wrong

With that said I'm sticking with alky and will either anodize or go plastic on the fuel cell in the future.

20 gallons! wow. Both of my cars hold 4 gallons. When the race is over, I suck the fuel into one of those portable pumps, and drain the last out of the bottom. Both are aluminum tanks.I can have both cars deconned in less than 10 minutes. Next race, put reclaimed fuel in , ready to go. No trauma, no drama, no corrosion salts.

RIP

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Woodfin:
Racers,

What are the latest thoughts and products to minimize Methanol corrosion in carbs and fuel systems?

Top lube, top lube, top lube! In all the years I ran alky I always used top lube with no issues.

I use Power Plus just because it works, and is reasonably priced, and always seems to be available on the shelf, (first bought it at the track in Denver, when I converted to Alky in 2014, and now I buy it at the Summit store in Arlington).
The clear 16 Oz bottle has graduated markings on it, I use 1 ounce per 5 gallon jug, (about half of the recommended quantity). I prefer to mix it in the jug, adding the lube before filling it, and I shake the jug every time before fueling the car. That way I know it is blended and hasn't settled or separated, although I am not a chemist, maybe it stays mixed forever.
I have a 3 gallon aluminum cell, and I used to do the heavy maintenance, draining bowls after each race, blowing out system and removing carb for off season. The past 2 off seasons I have left the cell, pump, carb and lines filled and they all still look perfect. When I used the full recommended dose of lube, (2 Oz/Jug), I did notice the air bleeds would get a bit gummed up between races, so I adopted the practice of giving them all a quick shot of carb cleaner before each race. Cut the dose in half, and it seems perfect. I have a bypass regulator, and I periodically will flashlight the cell with pump on and off, there is not a speck of corrosion in the system. I do pull the carb and go thru it 2-3 times per year, always looks good, but the Nitrophyl floats will soak up some fuel after a while, so I have 3 sets that I rotate, start of season, and every couple of months. They dry out and are fine for later re-use.
Before using top lube, I would get the soft white deposits in the fuel bowls and filter, so for me it has made a difference. I had a bad experience with an aluminum inline filter that was supposedly made for alky, with a stainless mesh inside. Whatever material they used to braze the mesh screen to the end cap corroded like crazy. Tossed it, problem went away. Ran without a filter for a couple years, then added added one a couple years back for peace of mind. It was one that Bruce (Curly1) on here recommended, don't remember Mfr.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: FootbrakeJim,

^^^^^^This, only I used Klotz lube. Everything else was the same.

Why use less than the manufacturer's suggested quantity? If you don't trust what they are saying why are you trusting their product?

This to me is similar to engine oils and people adding a ZDDP additive. I am sure the oil engineers know more about their oil than I do. If I think they aren't mixing the correct thing when I have a sample analyzed I don't use it.

Also like the guys who take Scotchbrite to a new set of bearings.

quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:
Why use less than the manufacturer's suggested quantity? If you don't trust what they are saying why are you trusting their product?

Because I also know they have a vested interest in selling twice as much of their product?

Using the "for maximum protection" dosage was causing some minor issues, with air bleeds, and I could feel a bit of stickiness when working inside the carb. Reducing the amount I used eliminated the gumminess, and the buildup on the air bleeds, and it still prevents the white deposits that occurred without top lube. So I guess call me lucky, my experiment seems to have worked out well. And 280+ passes later with this approach has not resulted in any issues since then, in weather conditions ranging from 40*-102*F and 5% to 90% humidity. Just sharing what has worked for me.

Funny note about the scotch brite on the engine bearings, something that seems so amazingly stupid to me. A few years back I read one of those token 2-page "engine building" magazine articles, written by a VERY well-known builder, (mostly famous for his giant CID mountain motors), and I was shocked to read that he recommended using exactly that same practice! I don't know if he was intentionally giving bad advice, so guys would fail and call him for a new bullet, or maybe that is actually a good idea with 700+ inch mega motors...

I must be lucky. I have been running every kind of methanol induction available except EFI for 20 years without any corrosion I ever found. I put NOTHING in my methanol, no additives. Both of my cars have mechanical injection now, get raced 4-6 weekends a year, and get the cell filled Memorial Weekend, then drained in September. Sounds like a bunch of internet myth and hearsay like milky oil.....lol.

The head chemist in our lab said the same thing. Use less of the product, they know it won’t hurt to overtreat.

quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:
Why use less than the manufacturer's suggested quantity? If you don't trust what they are saying why are you trusting their product?


Also like the guys who take Scotchbrite to a new set of bearings.

Well you have a good point but I have seen a lot of people get a white milky looking sludge in the alcohol. I think it may be moisture and it separates out due to top lube. Most of the people who have had that mess ran a lot of top lube. I do not run much and have not had any problems.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Nitzsche:
I must be lucky. I have been running every kind of methanol induction available except EFI for 20 years without any corrosion I ever found. I put NOTHING in my methanol, no additives. Both of my cars have mechanical injection now, get raced 4-6 weekends a year, and get the cell filled Memorial Weekend, then drained in September. Sounds like a bunch of internet myth and hearsay like milky oil.....lol.

When my son started in jr's, we dropped any lube from our program because the little engines didn't seem to like it. Hasn't seemed to hurt us any not using lube for the last 8 years.

Lube in methanol is for cylinder wall wear mainly. If you haven't tracked cylinder wall wear with and without lube, you don't know.

Supposedly Glatts lube is best at controlling cylinder wall wear.

Some sprint car racer down here in Florida tracked it 10, 12 years ago Gaerte engines.

I recommend the PTFE fuel lines over regular Stainless Steel braided for alcohol. Also with the rubber lined I think it is bad to drain them seems like the lines dry out and break down faster.

quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:
Why use less than the manufacturer's suggested quantity? If you don't trust what they are saying why are you trusting their product?

This to me is similar to engine oils and people adding a ZDDP additive. I am sure the oil engineers know more about their oil than I do. If I think they aren't mixing the correct thing when I have a sample analyzed I don't use it.

Also like the guys who take Scotchbrite to a new set of bearings.

And you are the guy that would take them out of the box and put 'em in the engine too.
The last 4 sets of the new improved Mahle Clevite bearings I took out of the box had the name/part number embossment from .0004 to .0006 above the bearing. They all needed to be filed down. Gee, they are new..... Yep, new parts out of the teeny tiny box were wrong.
Before you make fun of "scotch briting" bearings you should actually build things for a living. Some do and some dont, does not make it right or wrong. Wrong is people that think parts come out of the box ready to use. Do ya really think coated bearings are sprayed with out any bearing prep? Wrong is uneducated people that have to criticize people on how the prepare parts for a build. Have you ever spent an hour and a half deburring valve springs for an engine? Doubtful. Blanket statements without knowledge of the real world are just crap.

quote:

Originally posted by Bad News:


And you are the guy that would take them out of the box and put 'em in the engine too.
The last 4 sets of the new improved Mahle Clevite bearings I took out of the box had the name/part number embossment from .0004 to .0006 above the bearing. They all needed to be filed down. Gee, they are new..... Yep, new parts out of the teeny tiny box were wrong.
Before you make fun of "scotch briting" bearings you should actually build things for a living. Some do and some dont, does not make it right or wrong. Wrong is people that think parts come out of the box ready to use. Do ya really think coated bearings are sprayed with out any bearing prep? Wrong is uneducated people that have to criticize people on how the prepare parts for a build. Have you ever spent an hour and a half deburring valve springs for an engine? Doubtful. Blanket statements without knowledge of the real world are just crap.

I can see filing down the raised part where the number was stamped. And many used to hit the bearings with Scotcbrite. Now I do not think it is such a good idea but I do not build motors for a living. Most all of us think it all needs to be checked and double checked.

quote:

Originally posted by Bad News:

quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:
Why use less than the manufacturer's suggested quantity? If you don't trust what they are saying why are you trusting their product?

This to me is similar to engine oils and people adding a ZDDP additive. I am sure the oil engineers know more about their oil than I do. If I think they aren't mixing the correct thing when I have a sample analyzed I don't use it.

Also like the guys who take Scotchbrite to a new set of bearings.

And you are the guy that would take them out of the box and put 'em in the engine too.
The last 4 sets of the new improved Mahle Clevite bearings I took out of the box had the name/part number embossment from .0004 to .0006 above the bearing. They all needed to be filed down. Gee, they are new..... Yep, new parts out of the teeny tiny box were wrong.
Before you make fun of "scotch briting" bearings you should actually build things for a living. Some do and some dont, does not make it right or wrong. Wrong is people that think parts come out of the box ready to use. Do ya really think coated bearings are sprayed with out any bearing prep? Wrong is uneducated people that have to criticize people on how the prepare parts for a build. Have you ever spent an hour and a half deburring valve springs for an engine? Doubtful. Blanket statements without knowledge of the real world are just crap.

Bad News, you took that way too personal, that was no attack on you nor a blanket statement it was all just opinions. Fixing a manufacturer's defect is quite different from taking the coating off a bearing for no reason. That was quite an attack on me without you knowing anything about me. So be it. Would I put a set of bearings in without measuring and visually inspecting them? No but that is a long way from putting the recommended amount of oil in alcohol.

We are all grown men and can do as we see fit with our racing programs. If you want to use Scotchbrite to take the coating off a bearing then by all means do as you wish, I don't care nor will it effect me in any way. Before you criticize someone for being "uneducated" and for not "building things for a living", maybe you should know if either is true. Might I ask though, do you build engines for a living?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: CURTIS REED,