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4 link vs ladder bars
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Picture of wideopen231
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Ok I know eveyone love 4 link. My question is art what point does it become beneficial to have 4 link over and more simple ladder bar setup?

My old Nova for example had a ladder bar set up with 3 or 4 hole brackets. I think I started in middle and never made a change. Car was deadly consistent,went straight almost always and very esy to drive. This was 25 years ago,driver never staged exactly same,no delay box and only 5.90(1/8) car. Heck I know the car was still racing few years back and may have same set up,funny thing it had same dial in I have on it in a pic from 1987.




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Posts: 4333 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of AlkyIROC
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Adjustability. It all depends on how the car reacts to changes. With ladder bars, you're really limited to what you can change. With a 4-link, even though you have a lot of IC selections, only a handful are really useful. At least with a 4-link, if you need the IC to be below ground, you can adjust it to there. Also changing the IC with a 4-link won't change your pinion angle compared to just raising and lowering the ladder bars to a different hole.

Ladder bars also don't need a lot of body changes. They'll generally fit under most cars with minimal floor modifications. Although possible, it's not easy to install a good 4-link under a door car without doing a back half.
 
Posts: 1355 | Location: Calgary | Registered: June 06, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of CURTIS REED
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4 links shine also when you start adding big power. Ladder bars tend to hit the tire really hard.

Now ladder bar cars are basically built in anti roll bars though.



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Posts: 3027 | Location: KIEFER, OK. | Registered: August 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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while not crazy about cutting crap out of my z/28. I will if makes it lot more consistent.

My thinking was with low power I intend ladder bars would be just as good as 4 link for consistent car. Maybe wrong. Again its been 35 years since I had a car with suspension period. About that long since no big windmill on intake. CMAO.
Blown is nice
Injection Good
but both is awsome!! LOL oops off topic.




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Posts: 4333 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of CURTIS REED
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If it's dead hooking the 4 link would do nothing but lighten your wallet. If you want a larger tuning window then go for it but it's a lot of work for nothing if the car isn't having an issue in my opinion.



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Posts: 3027 | Location: KIEFER, OK. | Registered: August 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well car has never hooked,but then its still street trim except little tear into to remove some weight. I had a kid who hung around and wanted a racecar. I tried to sell it to him dirt cheap almost free,but he had to do the work and buy parts. After little work he said nope not interested. So its sitting here. Figure hell very little cost to convert to low buck door car.Biggest expense would be transmission swap. 6 spd got to go.I should sell,but damn that thing is lot of fun.

Right now I am still leaning towards ladder bars and if can not make work then go 4 link. Plus don't figure to have ton of time n ow that Fed is hitting track.

No. No real runs yet.Some attempted hits.mostly with minor issues or tuning needs. Well after rebuilding trans from light bulb short circuit. Getting few thing and hitting track some more mid august.If NC idiot governor doesn't close state down again.




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Posts: 4333 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of chasracer
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quote:
Originally posted by wideopen231:
Figure hell very little cost to convert to low buck door car.


And a 6.20 car just hit it big...yep we get it!

LOL!
 
Posts: 1135 | Location: The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?” ~~ Captain Jack Sparrow ~~ | Registered: August 21, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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4 link is nothing more than a set of infinitely adjustable ladder bars. Long instant centers, low instant centers, high ones, short ones, etc.... all possible with a 4 link. Of all those possible settings, 1 or 2 will work and you'll never change it unless you significantly change the car combination.

For your basic 5.50 (1/8mile) and slower door car, ladder bars will work. My old 72 nova was 3200 with driver and had a 598, on 29.5x10.5x15 pro bracket radials ran fine on leaf springs with slide a links when the track was good, and would spin like a fuel car when the track was bad. Swapped to 36" long fully adjustable ladder bars, no change. Still ran good when the track was good, still tried to ride big long cool wheelies when the track was good, and still spun like a top fuel car if the track was bad.

Bad thing was, i cut the **** out of the stock 1 piece floor pan i welded in it when i first built it. Still wish i had not done that. It was a total waste of time. As far as putting a 4 link vs. a ladder bar, all depends on where you see the car in the future. If you think its going to turn into a all tube chassis, strut front end, low and mean FAST racecar, i'd vote for 4 link, if you think it will end up bracket hustler with some big tires out back and a little on the heavy side, ladder bars is more than enough.

As a side note, ladder bars are usually a lot easier to install, especially if it already has a rear end mounted in the car on leaf springs all you gotta do mock up the whole system, then start welding, then remove leaf springs. Me and another dude did that in a 76 nova about 5 years ago, took all of about 8 hours total for the ladder bar, shock cross member, and shock mounts on the rear. The mini tubs were the hard part.
 
Posts: 412 | Location: Pride, La | Registered: April 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of wideopen231
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quote:
Originally posted by chasracer:
quote:
Originally posted by wideopen231:
Figure hell very little cost to convert to low buck door car.


And a 6.20 car just hit it big...yep we get it!

LOL!


Nope sorry. Has been idea for cpl years just not able to start and after trying to help someone else and getting short end of stick. I figured hey lots of footbrake and door car only deals I could run. Heck 6.20 would be big leap forward for what I am figuring on for this car. More of low buck piece to play with and maybe let dad make few laps if he wants. After all this whole drag race deal started with him in 1964 or so and not my fault.




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Posts: 4333 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of wideopen231
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quote:
Originally posted by Triple Nickel:
4 link is nothing more than a set of infinitely adjustable ladder bars. Long instant centers, low instant centers, high ones, short ones, etc.... all possible with a 4 link. Of all those possible settings, 1 or 2 will work and you'll never change it unless you significantly change the car combination.

For your basic 5.50 (1/8mile) and slower door car, ladder bars will work. My old 72 nova was 3200 with driver and had a 598, on 29.5x10.5x15 pro bracket radials ran fine on leaf springs with slide a links when the track was good, and would spin like a fuel car when the track was bad. Swapped to 36" long fully adjustable ladder bars, no change. Still ran good when the track was good, still tried to ride big long cool wheelies when the track was good, and still spun like a top fuel car if the track was bad.

Bad thing was, i cut the **** out of the stock 1 piece floor pan i welded in it when i first built it. Still wish i had not done that. It was a total waste of time. As far as putting a 4 link vs. a ladder bar, all depends on where you see the car in the future. If you think its going to turn into a all tube chassis, strut front end, low and mean FAST racecar, i'd vote for 4 link, if you think it will end up bracket hustler with some big tires out back and a little on the heavy side, ladder bars is more than enough.

As a side note, ladder bars are usually a lot easier to install, especially if it already has a rear end mounted in the car on leaf springs all you gotta do mock up the whole system, then start welding, then remove leaf springs. Me and another dude did that in a 76 nova about 5 years ago, took all of about 8 hours total for the ladder bar, shock cross member, and shock mounts on the rear. The mini tubs were the hard part.


Me and dad started one like that.End up with full Alston chassis kit under a $250 66 Nova I bought from a guy who started butchering it. Its same car mentioned in OP.Must have done decent job it was still racing 20 plus years later and thats after guy who bought it tried blown 427 in it. Was too much power and even Mark Oswald could not get it down the track.Hey it was mild steel rectangle tube frame rail chassis. Built for 700 hp bbc. Guy who bought it was crew member on TF/FC.




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Posts: 4333 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Biggest expense would be transmission swap. 6 spd got to go.I should sell,but damn that thing is lot of fun.

Do your research on six speed swaps. if you have all pieces, pedals, flywheel, everything... they bring good money. Probably enough to buy a decent stock case powerglide and good used convertor.
 
Posts: 102 | Location: Work | Registered: April 12, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by CURTIS REED:
If it's dead hooking the 4 link would do nothing but lighten your wallet. If you want a larger tuning window then go for it but it's a lot of work for nothing if the car isn't having an issue in my opinion.

https://youtu.be/I8QWEaqeFRw
Ladder bar clinic 10 x 28 bias slick sbc 3250 lbs 1.28 60ft. Last car down test n tune prep.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of RacerVX54
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Aint nothing wrong with ladder bar cars. Both will work fun.


"Just Shut Up and Race"

Brian Martin
Martin Racing
5.66 @121.55
 
Posts: 1406 | Location: Va.Beach .Va | Registered: August 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Mike Nitzsche
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I had big problems trying to get my 5 second Nova with a 12" crank centerline to work with ladder bars. Put a 4 link in and it became deadly consistent. Ladder bars don't seem to work well on low center of gravity cars.
 
Posts: 1364 | Location: Lansing,Mi | Registered: March 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Nitzsche:
I had big problems trying to get my 5 second Nova with a 12" crank centerline to work with ladder bars. Put a 4 link in and it became deadly consistent. Ladder bars don't seem to work well on low center of gravity cars.


That's exactly correct. Pickup point is too short.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of CURTIS REED
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Nitzsche:
I had big problems trying to get my 5 second Nova with a 12" crank centerline to work with ladder bars. Put a 4 link in and it became deadly consistent. Ladder bars don't seem to work well on low center of gravity cars.


Yep. I have a guy that I race with all the time. Extended cab S-10 that sits really low. High 6.50 to low 6.60s. On gas he does well with it. When he put it on alcohol and added some torque when he least expected it would blow the tires off no matter where he set the bars at. Tried shock adjustments, new slicks, finally added 75lbs to the rear. Went back to gas and took the weight out and again no problems.

Doesn't mean the ladder bars are solely to blame but it was limited in what we could do with it.



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Posts: 3027 | Location: KIEFER, OK. | Registered: August 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of wideopen231
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quote:
Originally posted by JPosey:
Biggest expense would be transmission swap. 6 spd got to go.I should sell,but damn that thing is lot of fun.

Do your research on six speed swaps. if you have all pieces, pedals, flywheel, everything... they bring good money. Probably enough to buy a decent stock case powerglide and good used convertor.


Yea.This fact was part of what got me thinking about doing this deal. Very little out of pocket or in my case very little pulled from FED. Lots of door car only races that are fairly close and adds another option.

If yank the LT-1 which might be good idea then more money but at more expense than its going to bring.Old stuff not a LS you know. Looking into what would make LT-1 a useable piece with few mods. 500 hp is about the high side limit and then costly. Those thing are not cheap to hop up.Plus 120000 ,miles of me its tired.




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Posts: 4333 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Looking a S&W's back half kits. Not a lot of difference in building either other than cutting floor and cpl extra Hiem joints. Tubing wise even chromoly would not be huge cost. Being a sub frame car of coarse I will have to tie to front and add roll bar. Although t has sub frame connector now,but that was for curve hanging fun,not track fun.

Now to figure out shocks that will make it work.Again suspensions are not my best subject. Which is why hesitation on 4 link,too many combo's.




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Posts: 4333 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well car is ready to ngo in shop.Gutted it this week. Going to do some measuring this weekend and see how much to get 4 link in.. Got to do something.FED is in trailer ready to run if temps every get out of 90's with 80% humidity. Figure can work on some fed projects and tinker on Camaro. Maybe since lot less work and lot less money than FED it will not take near as long.If does I will using SS check to build it .LMAO




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Posts: 4333 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of chasracer
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quote:
Originally posted by wideopen231:
quote:
Originally posted by chasracer:
quote:
Originally posted by wideopen231:
Figure hell very little cost to convert to low buck door car.


And a 6.20 car just hit it big...yep we get it!

LOL!


Nope sorry. Has been idea for cpl years just not able to start and after trying to help someone else and getting short end of stick. I figured hey lots of footbrake and door car only deals I could run. Heck 6.20 would be big leap forward for what I am figuring on for this car. More of low buck piece to play with and maybe let dad make few laps if he wants. After all this whole drag race deal started with him in 1964 or so and not my fault.


Sorry man - it was a small attempt at humor. Seems like since the other weekend EVERYONE wants a 6.20 car and who can blame them?

Cool that you're letting ole Dad take some shots with the car. My kids do the same for me, but I'm usually stuck trying to fix 'em. LOL!


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Posts: 1135 | Location: The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?” ~~ Captain Jack Sparrow ~~ | Registered: August 21, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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