Well, things didn't turn out as well as I'd hoped this year, but oh well, things happen...Con rod decided it didn't like being attached to both the crank and the piston at the same time, so it broke right below the wrist pin....banged some stuff up, but nothing that isn't fixable...haven't really done much with it since it happened, been busy with other things. But now it's coming into the off season, I'm getting the tinkering bug again, and have decided it's time to update some stuff. So, that's exactly what I'm gonna do. The bottom end will be mostly the same, with the exception of the cam and con rods. I'm going back to steel con rods after this last little fiasco. Crank appears ok, just needs to be polished from the looks of it and will need a rebalance. I'll need new pistons, and looking at running a ring package of 1.5, 1.5, 3mm, coated skirts again and coated top. I need to call Rob at Gibtec and see how far out they are on pistons... I'll get the pan fixed (not a lot of damage but enough to send it back to Billet Fab), go through the oil pump, install new sleeves, cam bearings, and deck the block a little. Losing the belt drive in favor of a gear drive, and ditching the dist. in favor of the MSD CDI system. The top end is the big change. After doing a lot of research over the last few months, talking to some other racers, and exploring options, I've decided to go with the MBE Big 9 Top end package. They should be a considerable step up from what I have. I'll be getting a custom sheet metal intake as well for my setup, and it will go to Steve Johnson at IS to replumb and flow my nitrous system. I was going to order the heads today, but Matt was either busy or they aren't open, so I'll call on monday...

Well see how things turn out, wait for parts is crazy right now, but oh well, I've got a busy year planned next year and none of it involves racing, so I've got time to get this back together without trying to rush it.....

Haters gonna hate, but I'm excited. First major update in years, and I'm looking forward to what it will do.

I have not seen one 9* degree combo that is impressive and that includes MBE’s 9 degree.

quote:

Originally posted by 1320racer:
I have not seen one 9* degree combo that is impressive and that includes MBE’s 9 degree.

I don't know what kind of difference in performance I'll see, but I do know that I won't be having any more valve train issues, which has been a problem with my Profilers. There's also some other things regarding the heads that will change, which is a design thing, but not until it's back running will we know. I do know that my cam isn't ideal for what I have, it was ground for gas/nitrous...alky/nitrous has different requirements. I'll be calling Bullet for that as they seem to have a good handle on that.

All I can tell you is a good friend of mine has MBE’s heads and billet manifold atop a 632 and to say he is disappointed is s huge understatement.

I wouldn’t put those heads and manifold atop anything smaller than 665 cubes with 16:1 compression and you better be prepared to shift above 8000 and trap even higher. Strictly 1/4 mile racing.

I am running a 665" deal and I turn about 8200 on the bottle. I'm also at 16.5:1 compression. Bandimere is 1/4 mile, so no worries there.

Well you’ve hit the cubes and compression but 8200 is your minimum shift rpm, trap rpm needs to be higher.

X BLOCK….

I guess we'll know soon enough

Sounds like a whole lot of money for a whole lot of very custom parts that may just have mediocre results. Plus I don't see those heads liking alcohol with nitrous at all. There is a whole lot of better more efficient ways to go fast in top dragster

I considered a whole new combo and going blower. Cost even more than doing what I am.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Steve:
Sounds like a whole lot of money for a whole lot of very custom parts that may just have mediocre results. Plus I don't see those heads liking alcohol with nitrous at all. There is a whole lot of better more efficient ways to go fast in top dragster

All points dead on 0 and Big Steve…KNOWS

quote:

Originally posted by Big Steve:
Plus I don't see those heads liking alcohol with nitrous at all.

Curious as to your thoughts on this. There have been several head combos before that were said not to work with a certain valve angle of head, but those issues were resolved with the correct chamber and cam selection. This includes using alky or nitrous or both, and also in supercharged combos.....

Not arguing, just curious on thoughts about it....

I have never seen a big chief style head work well with alcohol unless it had a supercharger sitting on top of them, the chambers just cant handle the huge volume of fuel and burn efficiently IMO. If you add nitrous you add even more fuel. I ran a alky nitrous combo bracket racing, even with a conventional head anything more than a 300 shot would slow down because I just could not burn the amount of fuel required but it did work well with a 150-200 shot.

If your going to get those heads then run them on gas with nitrous, that's what they are designed for. I bet Matt tells you the same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Steve:
I have never seen a big chief style head work well with alcohol unless it had a supercharger sitting on top of them, the chambers just cant handle the huge volume of fuel. If you add nitrous you add even more fuel. I ran a alky nitrous combo bracket racing, even with a conventional head anything more than a 300 shot would slow down because I just could not burn the amount of fuel required but it did work well with a 150-200 shot.

If your going to get those heads then run them on gas with nitrous, that's what they are designed for. I bet Matt tells you the same thing.

On my stuff, 12* Profilers, they went nearly .3 faster on alky than on gas...with no cam change....and pickup on nitrous was same....

I did talk to Matt extensively about my combo and what I was going to run.....He told me what he'd do with the chambers and made some suggestions about cam grind. That was one question I did put to him as well, how would it compare...He said it's all in the chamber.

One thing I will disagree with is the whole fuel volume thing....you're running one hell of a lot more fuel volume with a supercharger than you are na or in a nitrous application....it's not a volume thing, it's a vaporization thing....alky takes more heat to vaporize.....supercharging doesn't have the issue of available heat in the intake to vaporize the fuel. NA does and it's compounded by adding nitrous....which is one of the reasons I'm changing nozzle location in my intake...I've talked extensively to builders that run alky injection, and the general consensus is that the higher in the intake runner the nozzle is, the more hp they have found....it gives the fuel more time to vaporize...

Regardless, I'm quite well aware there will be pros and cons of this deal. I'm talking to some people that are one hell of a lot smarter than me when it comes to this stuff and taking their advice on this...I do appreciate the input from you guys though, and I'm taking that into consideration as well....but like I said, we'll find out and know soon enough......

Personal opinion, conventional heads, supercharger or Procharger. You’ll be a whole lot happier.

If you`re going to run nitrous, i would go with a 11 degree with a soft chamber.

Colorado,
You know my opinion on it and I hated that yours decided to let go. I know it is different running up on the hill and I hope Matt is giving you all the information you need. I would talk with Chris Wilson at Wilson racing engines as I believe he has done some MBE 11 and 9 degree stuff and they fly pretty well. I know he hasn't done any on alky so that will be a dead end on that one.
I still think you would be a lot happier with a blown application, whether it is roots, a mini blower or procharger type set up. They make all the power right now and you can tune them super easy. The carbureted ones seem to be easier to tune than the fuel injected ones but those fuel injected motors seem to go a little quicker.
I would also think about all the spares you would have as you are probably going to be the only person at the racetrack running that combination.. Good luck with your choice and look forward to talking with you again.

I have no idea what they’d do on alcohol, but I can imagine it’d be way down on Hp from gas. My 655 9* sunset has been 4.20 @ 165 in my TNT with 4.10’s and 3195’s... nothing special, no x pattern block, it’s a wet sump, 2.350 carb, cast intake, 4200 launch and 7500 shift. There is also a driskell built 648 9* I know pretty well that’s been 4.23 in Dallas and 6.7’s on the long track in an undercover. So they do work pretty well in the right hands I guess, but on alcohol I think you’d be disappointed. Joe has built a twin to mine that gets a 5-600 shot sprayed on it and I believe they have been high 6.2’s-low 6.3’s anyway. Mark Yeager has a short deck 622 9* that sunset built that is badass too. I’d put some gas carbs on it and spray the **** out of it if I were you

quote:

Originally posted by 70.5camaro:
I have no idea what they’d do on alcohol, but I can imagine it’d be way down on Hp from gas. My 655 9* sunset has been 4.20 @ 165 in my TNT with 4.10’s and 3195’s... nothing special, no x pattern block, it’s a wet sump, 2.350 carb, cast intake, 4200 launch and 7500 shift. There is also a driskell built 648 9* I know pretty well that’s been 4.23 in Dallas and 6.7’s on the long track in an undercover. So they do work pretty well in the right hands I guess, but on alcohol I think you’d be disappointed. Joe has built a twin to mine that gets a 5-600 shot sprayed on it and I believe they have been high 6.2’s-low 6.3’s anyway. Mark Yeager has a short deck 622 9* that sunset built that is badass too. I’d put some gas carbs on it and spray the **** out of it if I were you

I was told alky wouldn't work on my profilers either, but I picked up nearly .3 in the 1/4 with just that change alone....and these heads are being done specifically for alky....however, the cam is the biggest thing. A gas cam is different from an alky cam, especially when running nitrous. The gain I had on the bottle with my current setup was just as good as gas once I had it tuned....Had to guess at it because I didn't have any data from that track....Thank you to Bozeman for that, he helped!

I do appreciate all the input though. Believe it or not, I've done a ton of research about this, been looking at these heads for over a year now...I've asked a lot of questions to a lot of builders....and as you can imagine I've gotten a lot of different answers. But just like the SR20's, many said you couldn't run alky with those either, yet now they are. Couldn't run superchargers or nitrous, yet they have been with great success. No, I don't know how they will run, and time will tell. But the one thing is going to a blower setup will cost me nearly twice what these are...I've looked at those options already. I'd have to change literally EVERYTHING, and get a bunch of stuff I don't have....so in the grand scheme of things, this was the more cost effective route for me.

As for Matt, he's been awesome at getting details and all that. We've talked several times now about my combo and I'm pretty confident it will run substantially better than my current deal. Will it be the absolute best combo out there? No, but then which ones actually are??