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Bracket Talk Bracket Talk Forum Tech Talk - by Abruzzi Lets talk box adjustmentsGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| DRR Sportsman |
OK - so what are you guys opinion on changing delay in your box. I don't claim to the best but I can typically hit very consistent on reaction times on a given day. Meaning I will be .013-.018 on a given day for instance. However if I take .010 out of my box I may not even see any change. Mine is a K&R and have been sent back in and gone over. Only sent it in because the one button stopped working. They were very good and in no way am I saying its the "box" but makes ya wonder. I had a conversation with Dadus in the lanes a few years ago and he said they experience the same. And play with tire pressure more than the box. I have screwed myself many times taking .003 out and then i am .010 red after being low teens. Maybe its mental but I honestly go into autopilot mode where I don't think I could do something out of routine even if I tried. Just curious what others see. | ||
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DRR S/Pro |
Sounds like you need one of these, which breaks out and measures all of the actions that become "reaction time": https://precisionreaction.com/ Tony Leonard | |||
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| DRR Sportsman |
Ive looked at those but see too many unknows to feel it would be useful. I have racepak and driveshaft curves overlay perfect run to run. | |||
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| DRR Pro |
I've been bracket racing 35+ years & roughly 20 of them was using a delay box. I very rarely changed my setting & if I did it was .005 or less. While it has been around 10 years since leaving off the top bulb. Back then I used to target an .012 light as a baseline, if I was to go back to using a box. I would probably change that baseline to a .008-.010 depending on the race event. IMO, too many people chase their reaction times by changing their box settings. Yes, I have been thinking about putting the box back into the car. The last 10 years approximately, I've been leaving off the bottom bulb. 2BKING   1980 Camaro Taking the Best Working Small Tire Shyt Box & making it Greater Than Before! 3000 lbs. Pump Gas 436 | |||
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| DRR Sportsman |
Thanks for the input. I rarely change mine because when I do it never moves the way I think it should. LOL. I go to several different tracks and do have a few settings I start with. | |||
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| DRR S/Pro |
From what you initially posted, it seems like the measurement of "button release to transbrake signal" and "transbrake signal to car movement" would be valuable information in your case, if you're casting doubt that your box adjustments are doing anything. Tony Leonard | |||
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| DRR Pro |
I have a number I know if I let go right is 00_ something. 1.072. I can stack O bulbs like chord wood with that number but if I am in the teens or high 0's and try to roll a few out I seem to go red whatever amount I pulled out. Its crazy. I have been red twice this year. -.003 with 1.069 in box and -.004 with 1.068. It's got to the point I will die with a teen bulb before I roll some out and go red anymore. Zero chance with a red, at least some chance with a teen. I agree with the others its not a linear take .005 out and have a .005 quicker RT if everything is the same. | |||
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| DRR S/Pro |
The delay in boxes rarely fail, but when they do its non-output or extremely erratic event that I have experienced and observed. I check my delay consistency using Grid and it’s always .00xx of being the same value using several samples. I also check it with me being the faster car and crossing over. I believe failure to repeat is operator, then mechanical. | |||
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DRR Top Comp |
First off if your car is not performing right then it will not react right. Sounds simple but if your carb is fat it does not come up on converter as quick or as hard and reaction times suffer. Too lean and it may spit or stumble and that hurts reaction times. Converter, tire pressure and many other things effect reaction times. The last few years I have rarely ever drove same car twice or same combination and it has really been a struggle. As for target reaction times I have a friend who is much younger than me and a good driver but he always shoots for .000 lights and he hits it a lot. Seen him go back to back .000x He has won a lot of races and Championships but he also goes red too much. Often just -.001 but it is still a loss. I just do not cut it that close. I have to agree with MOPARACER plan. https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/ "Dunning-Kruger Effect" -a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge. Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue. 4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion | |||
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| DRR Sportsman |
What you describe is what I experience. Teens dont even think about taking out .005, you will be red by .008 after stringing together 3-4 runs of low teens. To me it doesn't make sense. On the runs where it is off I can see on racepak it hits the tire exactly the same. That tells me there is not dead time from run to run or something else. Conversely, I have gone to new tracks - first time run I will be -003, roll ten in the box for second hit I am still .001 to the good. And it will stay low .00X the remainder of the race. It would be neat to get that device posted. Maybe I will get it and rent it out to folks on here. LOL. Its one of those things that once you rule it out its not something you need every race. | |||
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DRR Sportsman |
If it's permanently installed on the car though, you could always look at it to confirm anytime you miss but don't feel like you missed. It would also help catch a bad tansbrake button, solenoid or other issue much quicker. Billy Duhs - BD104X@gmail.com | |||
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| DRR Pro |
Just mount a GoPro or camera on the roll bar behind you and record every run. If I am not sure I missed the tree I load it on my laptop in the trailer. Slow it down and you will see your 0 bulbs vs and teens and twenties pretty quick. I have ran my car for so long at the same track I know when a bad light pops up, just forget it. I missed it. Let 1.072 in the box and don't do it again. | |||
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| DRR Pro |
The above-posted link looks like a potential good tool. Larry Woodfin | |||
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DRR Pro |
I have one. It has shown me some things, but I've really just been gathering a data base to study more in depth. I use it and record the numbers every run, in addition to my tach replay data in the Mega box. I have found an occasional +.001 on the delay, my spare delay box is +.003 off, and sometimes the +.001 My rollout number varies quite a bit, but I think I need to tune the sensitivity tighter. I plan to discuss that with the seller. My dead time also varies, again probably just need to mount or tune the device better. I also have a variance on the two-step RPM at the hit, I even bought a new Digital MSD box because it supposedly has a better two step, but the variances might be tach resolution. I can have a + or - 100 rpm over the course of an event. None of all that data has me scrambled, when the on track performance is good or bad, it's 99%+ driver. I rarely move the box setting unless I can find a logical reason why the rollout or tree vision is causing a problem. I work within about a .020 delay range for the last few seasons. "Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular." Dave Cook N375 | |||
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| DRR Sportsman |
Good info. Yeah 100rpm is a lot. when I go off the bottom I use RPM and 100rpm for me was about .010. I would definitely try to get that taken care of. i will have to give this some more thought but I think I can achieve a lot of the same info from my racepak graphs. I can see 12v event from trans brake release, I can see crack of tire on driveshaft graphs. If there was more or less deadtime, then those graphs would not overlay as good as they do - which I look at often. most times I can not see the two lines because things overlap so well. That tells me the car is doing the same thing over and over again. The 60ft times rarely change more than 3-4 thousands. This box posted is making the assumption based on time from release and G forces the car is moving x distance. Without actually reading the track with say a laser I have a hard time trusting its accurracy. I feel that looking at driveshaft and G curves on racepak is more accurate. I can definately see if the car spins a hair more and it always shows in 60ft. Usually why I look closer at driveshaft curve. There will be a slightly higher blip. Crack of tire looks identical every run. It it just thereafter where the car gets up on the tire I will see a very light change and resultant 60ft. | |||
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| DRR S/Pro |
I don't know anything about Racepaks, but it seems simple enough that you could wire up a 12v event to measure the time between transbrake button release and the transbrake signal going dead. This would tell you if the box is not giving you exactly the amount of delay you are asking for. Tony Leonard | |||
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| DRR S/Pro |
X2 | |||
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| DRR Sportsman |
There is only 1 12v event recorded so you see when I push the button 12v active, but I might be on it for different intervals and then you see it drop. There is no release of button shown, only when box releases 12v signal. From the release you can measure the "dead time" I would think to when it cracks the tire. I usually start log at point of trans release to get graphs to overlay and they do perfectly. In other words the crack of the tire aligns which tells me at least that portion is very very consistent. That would be the dead time. Once the car starts moving till it leaves the beams nobody can tell, even with the device listed above. You can assume its moving the same but its just a calculation off likely the Gforces starting to ramp. To truely know you would need something measuring distance to track and/or distance traveled. Likely laser devices like found on cars to prevent them from wheelstanding. Both of which would not be viewed as legal in the eyes of some or many. | |||
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| DRR Trophy |
What none has mentioned here is sun movement and its effects on reaction times. At my home track which runs south to north it changes my requirede delay quit a lot from .995 in early morning to 1.015 or so in late afternnon. Now over at Byron which runs north to south almost no change all day so theres this to take into account. The difference between ignorance and stupidity. Ignorance is lack of knowledge. Stupidity is the inability to learn. Don't be stupid | |||
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| DRR S/Pro |
You could put a Normally Closed relay in the wire that sends the Transbrake signal to the Racepak. This relay would be activated by the button itself, so the Racepak will only see voltage after button release. Tony Leonard | |||
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Bracket Talk Bracket Talk Forum Tech Talk - by Abruzzi Lets talk box adjustments
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