Has anyone used a converter dump valve with a PG and a NA engine for bracket racing?
If so, was it consistent?
272" Spitzer 540 Chevy The Blower Shop XR1 FTI XPM Series Converter FTI Level 6 Powerglide 3.69@199 .916 60'
2017 Bradenton Heads Up Madness Open Outlaw Champ
2018 PDRA T/D #5 2019 PDRA T/D #2
2020 Retired From T/D Competition....
2020 Bradenton NMCA Hemi Shootout Winner
2021 getting back into bracket racing with a Gen3 Hemi powered 87 Cutlass.
November 15, 2022, 07:03 PM
67TSCHEVY2
I don't see why it would not be consistent there is a lot of TS cars using them and stacking numbers
November 16, 2022, 07:37 AM
B.C.Malibu
What’s the purpose of a dump valve??
November 16, 2022, 07:52 AM
329L
Just watch how long you keep it on. The thing to remember is that typically a lower hp level power glide is going to have about 200 psi max of line pressure, so dumping that might get you in trouble with the band if you leave it dumped to long.
Jeremiah Hall
November 16, 2022, 08:58 AM
seabass
im not a na setup but ive been usoing one for along time with zero issues, seems to be consistent...
J.R. Baxter
""Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured ..but not everyone must prove they are a citizen."
2024 Miller Rolla Competition Engines ProCharger Hoosier Tires Abruzzi
November 16, 2022, 09:05 AM
Big Steve
All depends if it is a internal converter line pressure dump or a external cooler line dump valve.
November 16, 2022, 10:16 AM
Mike Rietow
As consistent as a shift because that's what it is essentially, another gear (converter line pressure dump).
If I did it, I'd have a roller thrust on the crankshaft. And a metal can bellhousing.
November 16, 2022, 10:28 AM
Rodney Pryor
External cooler line dump valve was pretty much worthless for me as far as changing converter stall.
November 16, 2022, 10:36 AM
Mike Rietow
quote:
Originally posted by Rodney Pryor: External cooler line dump valve was pretty much worthless for me as far as changing converter stall.
You need a Hughes, heads up racers around here are getting them and pretending they went 3 sp transmission through FB video's.
The fast grudge racers with no weight limits pioneered-perfected it mostly.
You need a roller thrust on the engine to do it right. With a roller thrust on the engine/crank, you're not as limited on what you can do with converter pressure.
Metal can bellhousing for safety in experimentation.
November 16, 2022, 10:55 AM
Mike Nitzsche
quote:
Originally posted by "The Bender": Has anyone used a converter dump valve with a PG and a NA engine for bracket racing?
If so, was it consistent?
What are you trying to do? I always wanted to try a dump for n/a vs. nos situations.
November 16, 2022, 10:59 AM
NortonRacing
Not a lot of accurate info in this thread...
November 16, 2022, 12:42 PM
"The Bender"
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Nitzsche:
quote:
Originally posted by "The Bender": Has anyone used a converter dump valve with a PG and a NA engine for bracket racing?
If so, was it consistent?
What are you trying to do? I always wanted to try a dump for n/a vs. nos situations.
Raise the converter stall/flash at the launch.
272" Spitzer 540 Chevy The Blower Shop XR1 FTI XPM Series Converter FTI Level 6 Powerglide 3.69@199 .916 60'
2017 Bradenton Heads Up Madness Open Outlaw Champ
2018 PDRA T/D #5 2019 PDRA T/D #2
2020 Retired From T/D Competition....
2020 Bradenton NMCA Hemi Shootout Winner
2021 getting back into bracket racing with a Gen3 Hemi powered 87 Cutlass.
November 16, 2022, 12:47 PM
pauley
not to be a smart azz but why not just get the right stall converter for your application? seems much easier to me.
ep
November 16, 2022, 12:52 PM
67TSCHEVY2
EP it gives you the ability to raise or lower the flash to meet different track and weather conditions more so than just a plain converter and can be used to prevent converter ballooning while managing wheel speed. It helps to have a lot of HP too lol....
November 16, 2022, 01:25 PM
CURTIS REED
quote:
Originally posted by NortonRacing: Not a lot of accurate info in this thread...
So why not correct what is wrong so everyone has the right info?
____________________________ 2017 and 2018 Osage Casinos Tulsa Raceway Park No-Box Champion
2018 Div4 Goodguys Hammer award winner
November 16, 2022, 01:41 PM
Rodney Pryor
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Nitzsche:
quote:
Originally posted by "The Bender": Has anyone used a converter dump valve with a PG and a NA engine for bracket racing?
If so, was it consistent?
What are you trying to do? I always wanted to try a dump for n/a vs. nos situations.
I tried an external cooler line dump valve for this reason and it was not effective. I wanted to run a tighter converter for NOS and use the dump valve to loosen it for NA. I was monitoring the pressure on the cooler circuit through my Racepak and could verify a change in pressure, but little to no change in converter stall.
November 16, 2022, 04:40 PM
NortonRacing
quote:
Originally posted by CURTIS REED:
quote:
Originally posted by NortonRacing: Not a lot of accurate info in this thread...
So why not correct what is wrong so everyone has the right info?
Because it usually ends predictably on this website...
Due to the design of the line pressure regulator the converter charge circuit is the last to receive fluid. Only once the line pressure regulator is cracked from reaching desired pressure does the converter charge circuit recieve fluid. That is to say you will cavitate the converter before line pressure is affected and band/clutch pressure is affected.
A dump valve reduces converter charge pressure, so unless your totally out in left field making spool changes you do not need roller thrust. For that matter a steel bellhousing is just massive overkill, especially for typical bracket/top rides.
Internal dump is drastically more affective than an external.
The Hughes setup is easy enough, if not overpriced, you can duplicate it for half the cost.
Id recommend adding a hydraulic flow control valve vs a changeable orifice.
Stall RPM is one area to manipulate, the area right at shift and post-shift can help with RPM recovery.
November 16, 2022, 05:31 PM
Mike Rietow
quote:
Originally posted by Rodney Pryor:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Nitzsche:
quote:
Originally posted by "The Bender": Has anyone used a converter dump valve with a PG and a NA engine for bracket racing?
If so, was it consistent?
What are you trying to do? I always wanted to try a dump for n/a vs. nos situations.
I tried an external cooler line dump valve for this reason and it was not effective. I wanted to run a tighter converter for NOS and use the dump valve to loosen it for NA. I was monitoring the pressure on the cooler circuit through my Racepak and could verify a change in pressure, but little to no change in converter stall.
There's a small window of opportunity because you want a maximum of around 125-135psi converter pressure, and a minimum of around 35 psi, if you run a conventional thrust on the crank.
You can make the window of opportunity larger for adjusting stall via pressure, using a roller thrust and more converter pressure.
35psi to 250psi plus as example.This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Rietow,
November 16, 2022, 05:50 PM
CURTIS REED
quote:
Originally posted by NortonRacing:
quote:
Originally posted by CURTIS REED:
quote:
Originally posted by NortonRacing: Not a lot of accurate info in this thread...
So why not correct what is wrong so everyone has the right info?
Because it usually ends predictably on this website...
Due to the design of the line pressure regulator the converter charge circuit is the last to receive fluid. Only once the line pressure regulator is cracked from reaching desired pressure does the converter charge circuit recieve fluid. That is to say you will cavitate the converter before line pressure is affected and band/clutch pressure is affected.
A dump valve reduces converter charge pressure, so unless your totally out in left field making spool changes you do not need roller thrust. For that matter a steel bellhousing is just massive overkill, especially for typical bracket/top rides.
Internal dump is drastically more affective than an external.
The Hughes setup is easy enough, if not overpriced, you can duplicate it for half the cost.
Id recommend adding a hydraulic flow control valve vs a changeable orifice.
Stall RPM is one area to manipulate, the area right at shift and post-shift can help with RPM recovery.
I understand. Thanks for the explanation.
____________________________ 2017 and 2018 Osage Casinos Tulsa Raceway Park No-Box Champion
2018 Div4 Goodguys Hammer award winner
November 16, 2022, 06:09 PM
NortonRacing
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rietow
There's a small window of opportunity because you want a maximum of around 125-135psi converter pressure, and a minimum of around 35 psi, if you run a conventional thrust on the crank.
You can make the window of opportunity larger for adjusting stall via pressure, using a roller thrust and more converter pressure.
35psi to 250psi plus as example.
Although this is fundamentally right, there will be a larger window of available pressure range, the problem is once you have reached the point of preventing cavitation there is little to be gained. Most of the vehicles on this forum will not be cavitating with normal converter charge pressure, thus rendering the idea of a bigger tuning window irrelevant in your example.
This is highlighted by the fact that formulas for calculating stall/slip/torque do not even factor in fluid pressure, instead it merely relies on fluid density. If you have a converter equipped ProMod, yes this maybe of some benefit but most people will never benefit from that type of thinking.