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DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
posted
Okay opinions are like... well you know but like to know your thoughts on best rods and cranks for bracket racing. Which that eliminates aluminum rods at least for this discussion.
I have been very pleased with my Crower rods and Crank in my 454 SBC.

The Boostline rods look very interesting and a nice design.

Winberg lightweight cranks look like a work of art but how light is too light? So they may not the best choice for a bracket motor?

Like to know what people have had good results with and what ones did not live up to your expectations?


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4051 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Winberg cranks for sure. Curly1 that is a topic that will keep you up at night deciding on what to purchase. Oliver,Calis,Crower,Carrillo,Howards,Scat,Eagle,etc will give you a head spin for choices. It for me used to be how close was the sizing on everything but in the last 10 years or so everyone has good cnc machines so usually not an issue. If you have had good service out of the Crower stuff may as well just go that route again. We are just finishing a 406 with Crower crank and rods. 14.1,track one heads,alky for a 3000 lb car. Im hopping it will not go faster than than 6.40 but we will see. If it lives 400+ passes with running the valves and changing oil Ill be happy. I usually run Callies stuff in all my big blocks but I am in Ohio and they are only about 50 miles from me.
 
Posts: 318 | Location: ohio | Registered: June 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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Crower, Callies, Oliver, Carrillo all first rate parts but currently running a set of Crower rods on a Callies crank. I don't have any experience with Scat or Eagle.

Bob
 
Posts: 3093 | Location: Lakeside, Ca | Registered: February 15, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of CURTIS REED
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A lightweight Winberg in 300M material certainly isn't like a lightweight Scat or Eagle 4340 crank.

What are you building? Is it going to be NA or have some help? The Boostline rods are imports.

Crower is a top of the line company for American made parts and I see no reason to go away from their products seeing as you have had zero problems with them unless you need more rod clearance.

I have Callies crank and rods in my engine. The machine work was as good as I would expect from that company. My previous Crank came from them and I blackened every journal. It still miced to the tenth looking at my records just like when I put it in. .0003" bend just as new. It did have 2 small cracks in a couple main journal radii. A guy bought it from me and it's running again I believe.



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Posts: 2971 | Location: KIEFER, OK. | Registered: August 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
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I am not building anything right now just like to know what everyone thinks is best for the Heart of your engine. Like to know what brands have not lived up to your expectations. For instance seems I remember a year ago many were saying that Oliver rods were breaking.
Are you sure the Boostline are imports? I had not seen that and I do not know anyone using them they just look interesting. I can see where the design is strong but it may be a little heavier than some others.

And I know the Winberg cranks are very nice and that brings up another question. How light is too light? Will one of those super lightweight cranks and rods last in a bracket motor for years?

For Cranks and Rods we are trying to get perfect balance of lightweight components but heavy enough to last. There are so many other things involved, Material, forging process, machine work, Design and all have to work together.

What is best for a Top fuel motor, Pro Stock is not going to work well for us.

I have had excellent results from my Crower Crank, Rods, lifters and shaft rockers. I would recommend them to anyone they are very good. I am not going to say they are "The Best" I will say they are very good and have exceeded all my expectations. I do think on a Small Block Chevy the Crower shaft rockers are the best so that is what I bought for my latest project.

Like to get opinions on what you think is best for bracket racing and will last relatively long.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4051 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of CURTIS REED
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This is from their website about section.>>> ( Each BoostLine rod is designed and finish machined in the USA in Mentor, Ohio, and inspected on aerospace-grade CMM equipment. )

As far as too light unfortunately the answer is, when it flexes and loses power. The bad thing is that without testing you have to rely on the manufacturer to tell you what point that is. So many want really lightweight and maybe what will work well for a roundy round engine won't recover on transbrake release in a bracket engine. Sometimes the momentum of the weight is more productive than the engine acceleration of lightweight parts or the loss of power from flex.

Lightweight on the valve side of the valve train is an absolute win until it is so light it breaks. So many different combinations in that there are no easy answers to some questions. LOL

Again though I brought up the 300M material because you have to compare apples to apples and HP is a huge apple to look at when people give an opinion. What I would use in my little no hp 388 would in no way compare to what Rusty would use going 6.0s at 220. Winberg would definitely be at the top 2 or 3 though. The last one I had in my hands was a work of art. Also in respect to the Oliver rods I read about it also but have no specifics on the engines that had problems.

I like Callies stuff and Crower stuff for SB bracket racing to answer your question though. I personally have no practical experience building BB engines.



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Posts: 2971 | Location: KIEFER, OK. | Registered: August 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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300M is 4340 with some seasoning to add ductility.......good for shock applications.....

300M is a low alloy, vacuum melted, steel of very high strength. Essentially it is a modified AISI 4340 steel with silicon, vanadium and slightly more carbon and molybdenum. 300M has a very good combination of strength at 1930–2100 MPa (280-305 ksi), toughness, fatigue strength and good ductility

I'm not a metallurgical guru.....would have to go get schooled down the hall.

Definitely some good stuff. Makes sense they make great input shafts...


BG
 
Posts: 760 | Location: Florence, SC | Registered: August 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
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quote:
Originally posted by CURTIS REED:



Lightweight on the valve side of the valve train is an absolute win until it is so light it breaks. So many different combinations in that there are no easy answers to some questions. LOL





It is the same with Crank and Rods as with valve train, light is better until is breaks. Lol.

And you are right there are no easy answers or absolute answers.

Metallurgy is a big part of durability here. to hard it becomes brittle, too soft it is not strong. Does not matter how good the design is and the machine work if the material is not right for intended use.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4051 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of CURTIS REED
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quote:
Originally posted by BG7X77:
300M is 4340 with some seasoning to add ductility.......good for shock applications.....

300M is a low alloy, vacuum melted, steel of very high strength. Essentially it is a modified AISI 4340 steel with silicon, vanadium and slightly more carbon and molybdenum. 300M has a very good combination of strength at 1930–2100 MPa (280-305 ksi), toughness, fatigue strength and good ductility

I'm not a metallurgical guru.....would have to go get schooled down the hall.

Definitely some good stuff. Makes sense they make great input shafts...


Hey don't be bringing real information in here. Laughing Hard

I beg to differ though that once you are out of cert for 4340 it isn't 4340 anymore. That's all I've got, weak at best I know. LOL Thanks for the info.



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Posts: 2971 | Location: KIEFER, OK. | Registered: August 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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Bruce, the last several engines I built have Callies Comp Star rods and crank. Encluding the engine in Troy's Monte Carlo that has at least a gazillion passes. Super 10, Jeff's roadster, my Firebird, my Camaro just to name a few.


Larry Woodfin



 
Posts: 1838 | Location: Kilgore TX | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Alaskaracer
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Winberg, made right in Denver at the Western Technology Center, owned by V. Gaines. GRP and Gibtec are also in the same building. Winberg are proud of their cranks though....expensive!!!


Mark Goulette
Owner/Driver of the Livin' The Dream Racing dragster
www.livinthedreamracing.com
"Speed kills but it's better than going slow!"
Authorized Amsoil Retailer
 
Posts: 1501 | Location: Back home in Alaska! | Registered: February 13, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of HS professor
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Last all new engine I build I used a Molnar crank and rods. My machinest had never used them before and was a bit apprehensive lol After he had his hands on them and balanced everything he really liked them. That was about 700 runs ago in a 750hp 454 and holding up just fine. Previously, I've used Scat and Manley with good results also.
 
Posts: 1422 | Location: Monroe twp nj | Registered: December 05, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Anyone else think it should be law these china cranks & rods, come complete with teach your kids and grand kids how to speak chinese at home, cd's and dvd's?
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Lunati Pro Series Made in USA crank and rods.

Mellings Made in USA billet oil pump, standard volume high pressure.


 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Mike Reitow, Have used a Lunati Pro series with Oliver rods in the past no problem on sizing or balance of the assy. That was a long while ago and using Callies stuff for about 11 years. I get it on the China stuff and it has become a real problem that all at once people are going to say what happened. Well there are people paying attention that try to bring up the facts (you are one of them) but it kinda falls not so much on deaf ears but more like lets wait and see what happens as our goverment wont let certain things get too far. Well we all know how that works.
 
Posts: 318 | Location: ohio | Registered: June 06, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Curly1
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A couple of things to note about China stuff.

1. They are improving the quality every day. As they do more and more cranks or what ever they learn and improve their process and get better. When they get known for doing good quality instead of good prices the cost will go up. They are getting closer every day. Look at Japan after WW2 they were known for cheap junk then they worked on quality (As is China)and soon became the World leader in things like TV's, radios and Cameras. Then they moved on to bigger things like cars. If you wanted the best camera it was Japanese. China is not stupid and is following that example.
2. America is quickly losing the Technology to do these things. All Computers, radios, cameras, phones, TV's many Auto parts are made in China and we could not do them and be competitive here now. America became the World Leader because we worked hard and came out with all the new stuff and we could do anything. Now everyone wants a handout of more free stuff.
3. Dictator Biden and ****Taster Kamala has gave every thing to China and Illegal Immigrants that they want screwing over Americans. Dictator Biden has made it very clear that China owns him, and his little Son Hunter to.
4. Dictator Biden has made changes in oil and gas industry that has doubled the cost of gas and it will go up more. MUCH MORE. Why do I bring that up?
5. One of the unintended consequence of the Biden Regime is it now cost more than 3 times as much to ship stuff from China. That will hurt China as much or more than any Tariffs Trump put on them. I do not expect that shipping cost to go down in fact it may very well go way up even more. That was not what Biden wanted to happen but that is how it worked out. This gives America an opportunity to bring back some work but I suspect they may just try to find suppliers in Mexico or somewhere else. So even though Dictator Biden has helped China with the Tariffs I think they are still worse off than they were under Trump because of shipping cost. The customer will buy what ever they think they can get best quality for best price. Get the most for your money. Goods from China WILL GO UP. Significantly due to shipping.
6. Lets talk about Blocks and Heads, there is a company in China that does about 5 BILLION a year in business. They cast heads and blocks for Ford, Mitsubishi and some for General Motors. I have been there, I have seen it. Their shop is huge, like a small city and that was just one facility. They have maybe 100 CNC machines that run 24 hours a day and the stuff they put out is perfect. Not Good but PERFECT. And they do such quantities they are able to do it very low cost. I honestly do not know if any company in America could do that quality work and I know they could not come any where near the price. By the way most of the people there actually make pretty good money. China learned from America to do it right and constantly improve the process to get a better product and value and the business will come. With business comes profit and better pay. They learned that from Us and have passed us in may ways. I do not like to say that but it is true and you do not believe it go buy you an American made Computer, TV or anything like that. BUY AMERICAN? Lets say you buy a mid size Chevy car. The motor is made in China, the Block, the heads, Crank, rods and transmission and it may be assembled in Mexico. And like it or not those new cars are good. They will last 200,000 miles or more with no problems.

With shipping costs from China going up so much it may give America the opportunity to bring more work back here if it is not too far gone. But to say that all of the stuff from China is junk simply is not a valid argument any more and we all know it even if you do not want to admit it. We do not like it but be honest here.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4051 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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^^^^^^^
Well reasoned, logical and thought out.
Thinking Americans have much to consider before the next election. I don't know if this disturbing trend can be reversed.
Some Communist once said "Capitalists are so greedy they will sell us the rope we hang them with." A prophecy come true?
 
Posts: 606 | Location: Lakewood, Co. | Registered: January 22, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Shipping costs will be passed on to china consumer drone Americans, using credit cards that'll never be paid to zero balance, they were never qualified to obtain to begin with, subprime.

To bring back American manufacturing is simple, put tariffs on consumer goods sold at walmart.

The tariffs were on US inputs from china like steel and aluminum Harley Davidson used to buy from china before moving operations offshore, because of tariffs.

The other thing to note is it isn't chinese companies manufacturing in china, it's Icon American brand companies, with only allegiance to profits, and shareholder profits, and no allegiance to America.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
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quote:
Originally posted by SLICKSTER:
Mike Reitow, Have used a Lunati Pro series with Oliver rods in the past no problem on sizing or balance of the assy. That was a long while ago and using Callies stuff for about 11 years. I get it on the China stuff and it has become a real problem that all at once people are going to say what happened. Well there are people paying attention that try to bring up the facts (you are one of them) but it kinda falls not so much on deaf ears but more like lets wait and see what happens as our goverment wont let certain things get too far. Well we all know how that works.


Very True, and no matter where it goes, the politburo takes care of its own.
 
Posts: 9398 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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Callies crank and Carrillo rods


J.R. Baxter

""Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured ..but not everyone must prove they are a citizen."

2024 Miller
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