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DRR Sportsman
Picture of Matrix
posted
Trying to help a friend of mine out. We are just absolutely clueless. 245 American with a procharged 538. It will blow the tires off the line more times than it will hook up. Off the trailer it goes right down Broadway but after that it's a crap shoot. He's pulled /added timing, new penske shock, played with lauch rpm, put on new big bubbas, tried different tire pressures, 4 link adjustments and who knows what else. Anyone have any other ideas? Car worked great when it was n/a


Daryl Pinder

Dynasty Motorsports
www.dynastymotorsports.com


 
Posts: 456 | Location: Ft. Washington, MD USA | Registered: March 05, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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Rusty, JR Baxter and Greg Kelly here are who you want to be talking to. Besides them, Danny Nelson, Anthony Bettozzi snd Steve Furr to name a few that know what they are doing.
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
As a WAG, converter not right for the combo.. or junk track.

How fast did it run when it went down?
 
Posts: 2145 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
Launch rpm?


J.R. Baxter

""Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured ..but not everyone must prove they are a citizen."

2024 Miller
Rolla Competition Engines
ProCharger
Hoosier Tires
Abruzzi
 
Posts: 1515 | Location: Waxahachie | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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By chance could the shock be topping out due to hitting harder? Where is the timing and launch rpm? How much boost at the hit? Same converter as na or new tighter?


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6384 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Matrix
posted Hide Post
Launched anywhere from 3600 to 4800. He had borrowed a bolt together to try but I cant remember the size or stall. He has a new 9 inch in there now made for the combo. This has happened at a few different tracks


Daryl Pinder

Dynasty Motorsports
www.dynastymotorsports.com


 
Posts: 456 | Location: Ft. Washington, MD USA | Registered: March 05, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Matrix
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bucky:
By chance could the shock be topping out due to hitting harder? Where is the timing and launch rpm? How much boost at the hit? Same converter as na or new tighter?


He got a new shock from penske a few weeks ago and that was no help. I know he talked to Travis at American and he can't figure out either why it's doing this.


Daryl Pinder

Dynasty Motorsports
www.dynastymotorsports.com


 
Posts: 456 | Location: Ft. Washington, MD USA | Registered: March 05, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
Set base timing to 30 degrees, drop launch to 3000 rpm, pull 15 degrees at transbrake release put timing back in at 1.0 second. Once you figure out how to make it run from there, you can start fine tuning the timing retard (amount and duration). The faster you get all the timing back in it the faster it will go.

You didn't post how many degrees you are pulling at transbrake release, nor did you post total base timing, but too much timing will make it violent down low.

If it still wont leave drop the base timing even lower (25 ish) to see if you can get it to leave consistently or retard the timing even more at transbrake release (maybe 20 degrees).

If it still won't behave drop some boost out of it. When it does go down the track how fast is it?
 
Posts: 371 | Location: Pride, La | Registered: April 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of "The Bender"
posted Hide Post
What is the converter flashing to?


272" Spitzer
540 Chevy
The Blower Shop XR1
FTI XPM Series Converter
FTI Level 6 Powerglide
3.69@199
.916 60'

2017 Bradenton Heads Up Madness
Open Outlaw Champ

2018 PDRA T/D #5
2019 PDRA T/D #2

2020 Retired From T/D Competition....

2020 Bradenton NMCA Hemi Shootout Winner

2021 getting back into bracket racing with a Gen3 Hemi powered 87 Cutlass.
 
Posts: 3096 | Location: Yes | Registered: July 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Big Steve
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Nickel:
Set base timing to 30 degrees, drop launch to 3000 rpm, pull 15 degrees at transbrake release put timing back in at 1.0 second. Once you figure out how to make it run from there, you can start fine tuning the timing retard (amount and duration). The faster you get all the timing back in it the faster it will go.

You didn't post how many degrees you are pulling at transbrake release, nor did you post total base timing, but too much timing will make it violent down low.

If it still wont leave drop the base timing even lower (25 ish) to see if you can get it to leave consistently or retard the timing even more at transbrake release (maybe 20 degrees).

If it still won't behave drop some boost out of it. When it does go down the track how fast is it?


What overdrive and how much boost? Most of the PC guys I know have 25 or less base timing and pull up to 10* and all back in before 2 secs. Should also have a 10 inch converter IMO. And put Hoosier c1550s on it Big Grin
 
Posts: 2411 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
2019 American 245” with a F1R 540. I had the exact same struggles earlier this year. Two biggest changes that turned the car around was to ditch the Penske shock and got a custom built JRI from Competitive Suspension and went with a much tighter converter from Abruzzi. I had a 10” Q3 and it would flash over 7000. Went to a Q6 and it killed 500 ish in stall. I also lowered tire pressure from 5.6 to 5.2. 3195MT tire. I run my base timing at 26* pull 8* at the hit and have all of it back in 1.8 seconds later or basically as soon as the car is in high gear. Runs low 4.20’s 168 with this setup. Hope that helps
 
Posts: 21 | Location: Jackson | Registered: March 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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I would get more back to the very basics...

what is gear in trans

what is rear gear

what blower is on it and if its gear drive...what ratio...and if its belt,what pully

and last what is the spread of your top and bottom bars
 
Posts: 1424 | Location: united states | Registered: January 16, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Matrix
posted Hide Post
Trying to get as much info as I can for you all. It's an F1R, running 4.10 gears and I believe 1.80 first in trans. I believe he's running a whole lot more timing than anyone has suggested here like in the high 30 degree range. Ill get some more info in the morning. I appreciate all the info so far. Keep it coming


Daryl Pinder

Dynasty Motorsports
www.dynastymotorsports.com


 
Posts: 456 | Location: Ft. Washington, MD USA | Registered: March 05, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Trying to get as much info as I can for you all. It's an F1R, running 4.10 gears and I believe 1.80 first in trans. I believe he's running a whole lot more timing than anyone has suggested here

my opinion ... way too much rear gear and trans first gear...add wack timing numbers and who knows what drive ratio or pulley on there...she sounds vicious!!
 
Posts: 1424 | Location: united states | Registered: January 16, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jenavet:
quote:
Trying to get as much info as I can for you all. It's an F1R, running 4.10 gears and I believe 1.80 first in trans. I believe he's running a whole lot more timing than anyone has suggested here

my opinion ... way too much rear gear and trans first gear...add wack timing numbers and who knows what drive ratio or pulley on there...she sounds vicious!!


Na, perfect combo


J.R. Baxter

""Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured ..but not everyone must prove they are a citizen."

2024 Miller
Rolla Competition Engines
ProCharger
Hoosier Tires
Abruzzi
 
Posts: 1515 | Location: Waxahachie | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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quote:
Na, perfect combo


well you are a wild man!!
 
Posts: 1424 | Location: united states | Registered: January 16, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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As mentioned, launching @ 15-17* and then ramping it back to your full timing number is the key thing with getting them to stay hooked.

If he has a Racepak data log I'd be glad to look at it and offer suggestions.
 
Posts: 671 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: April 26, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Key message here is kill timing till it settles down, set the base low then pull enough to get a handle on it. Then creep back up on the power via base timing and decreasing the amount of retard. No clue on the OD of the blower but then again does it really matter, you gotta kill it a bunch (one way or another) to make it go down the track consistently. One way to do that is through base timing and timing retards. My initial guess at 30 was based on the idea that the OD in the blower isn't set on kill (4 teen power range in a dragster = on kill to me for bracket racing), if it is then base timing needs to be closer to the 26, then pull 15 at the hit, and ramp back in. If you wanna hold it out till 2 seconds that's fine too. Key idea here is to get rid of some of the timing how you do it is up to the tuner. I threw some numbers out there as a reference.

That first gear is likely too steep and i'd consider dropping some rear gear too, but it should go down on a 4.11, just might be a little aggressive. If money was no object, drop in a 1.58 sonnax first gear and drop rear gear to 3.70 then try that. Timing is much cheaper tho in the short run as long as you don't hurt the motor....

PS i'm no procharger guy, roots stuff is all i have to work from, so gross numbers may be off but the idea is the same PC vs. roots.
 
Posts: 371 | Location: Pride, La | Registered: April 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Big Steve
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Just for reference I run a 180/370 gear in my blown TD, works really well for me. The 370 keeps the converter a bit on the loose side but it runs good speed without allot of RPM
 
Posts: 2411 | Location: Moving back to the door side | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
Something stupid, but I assume the air in the shock was checked? I've seen no air in shock do this.
Sounds like a lot of gear and timing though if it is upper 30s.
 
Posts: 102 | Location: Ohio | Registered: December 19, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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