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DRR Sportsman
Picture of David Gerard
posted
After several years running nitrous oxide with racing gas in Top Dragster, we are moving to a new ProCharger combination with a F-3R-112 “Side Slinger”.

We will be running alcohol for the first time in many years and the RacePak V300 computer provides many more options on measuring events than in the past.

Serious questions for those actually running supercharged alcohol engines:
[normal reading of the spark plugs first, of course!]
o RacePak EGT’s: Alcohol - what temperature range is normal for safe performance?
o RacePak A/F sensors: Alcohol - Which is more accurate and/or easy to tune to? Lambda or Air/Fuel ratio? What is a normal safe performance range for each?
o Which is best for my four RacePak A/F sensors:
• Which cylinders? [Currently #3 and #6 cylinders] add the two new ones to #2 and #7 for measuring corner cylinders OR ??
• Two cylinders [which ones?] and the collectors [we will switch to zoomies later]?

We will baselining the engine on the dyno before TnT runs, and would like to get a head start on expected values!
 
Posts: 421 | Location: Fullerton, CA | Registered: June 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
I wouldn’t come here for those answers….lol
 
Posts: 1264 | Location: USA | Registered: December 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of TD3550
posted Hide Post
If you need info on this deal, Talk to Pascal on here. He runs a "Side Slinger"And is in the teens.
I haven't talked to him in a while. He is more likely busy with his engine shop.
 
Posts: 1409 | Location: Under a Truck | Registered: August 23, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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Rusty Baxter 2 time NHRA US Nationals winner is the go to guy here for this combo.
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by David Gerard:
After several years running nitrous oxide with racing gas in Top Dragster, we are moving to a new ProCharger combination with a F-3R-112 “Side Slinger”.

We will be running alcohol for the first time in many years and the RacePak V300 computer provides many more options on measuring events than in the past.

Serious questions for those actually running supercharged alcohol engines:
[normal reading of the spark plugs first, of course!]
o RacePak EGT’s: Alcohol - what temperature range is normal for safe performance?
o RacePak A/F sensors: Alcohol - Which is more accurate and/or easy to tune to? Lambda or Air/Fuel ratio? What is a normal safe performance range for each?
o Which is best for my four RacePak A/F sensors:
• Which cylinders? [Currently #3 and #6 cylinders] add the two new ones to #2 and #7 for measuring corner cylinders OR ??
• Two cylinders [which ones?] and the collectors [we will switch to zoomies later]?

We will baselining the engine on the dyno before TnT runs, and would like to get a head start on expected values!


Most will ask you how fast do you want to go before answering!

Also buying a combo from a builder who knows what they are doing would be able to give you all those answers! I know of a few racers who have switched to this combo from ADP and run very good without any rocket science tuning! One goes 50's and 60's and the other was in the 30's. Both blow through carb combo's!
 
Posts: 2161 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
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With the O2 as you build more boost the optimum O2 will be richer and some motors are a little different as to what that number is. With most O2 sensors as you get up in boost you will be off the scale. Newer ones read fatter and will work better on boosted.

Start fat and read plugs and ET/ MPH and then use the O2 to help keep that tune up.

What O2 scale to use? Simply does not matter. Most people use the alcohol scale on alcohol but it just does not matter. Easier to compare to others if you use same scale but you can always cross reference if they use a different one. The sensor reads 0-5 MV and then it sends that signal to the controller.

Which cylinders to read? I would put bungs in every cylinder and that way you can change them once in a while to verify you are getting good mixture on all.


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Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

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Posts: 4043 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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As mentioned what performance/boost level is important. Water heads or dry/solid can affect EGT's

JR and Rusty posted their AF numbers in a recent thread. They are of course sub 6.10 players Cool Seems like last time I talked to Rusty he was saying something like - "are there still straps on the plugs?" Smile

My car and most of the stuff I see (including some roots) give EGT around 1100 and AF 4.7. Choice of scaling of lambda vs gas vs meth depends on what your carb guy wants to see. APD uses the meth scale (most do). I'd put the AF's in the collectors because you have the 8 EGT's for cylinder-to-cylinder comparisons.

When I make any kind of a significant change I make a 300-400' hit then 700 then 1320. Checking everything. I get out at the end of the track pack the chute and pull #7 spark plug (cause it's easy) pop in a old plug, drive back and evaluate the plug (see strap comment above).
 
Posts: 671 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: April 26, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
Picture of David Gerard
posted Hide Post
Thanks, everyone for your responses.

We are using a Vrbancic Brothers Racing [Carb Shop] for our basic tune up [cam, carb. etc.] and will break in the engine without boost on Bob's dyno on gas before pushing for a safe and reliable state of tune with the ProCharger on alcohol.

Finding a place to TnT this winter will be a challenge here in SoCal! We tow with a golf cart to and from the track and understand the testing "rules".

We are shooting for mid/high six thirties for repeatability, as TD is a Fast Bracket Race!
 
Posts: 421 | Location: Fullerton, CA | Registered: June 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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