Have a buddy that has challenge for me to see how much mileage we can get out of V-8 in S10 truck.

We are building 383 sbc with efi. Looking inot efi part there are few choices and would like simple setup geared to old guys who are not super techno.

Engine is mild combo 10.5:1 mild cam,good heads but not stupid big since would kill the goal. Going with 1.75 headers and magna flow exhaust. OD transmission with 3.42 gears if find right transmission we might step up to 3.73 gear since high OD will cancel down side.

He said he would be happy with anything in 20 mpg. Heck me old 383 in camaro with more cam and ported heads got 24 mpg.Well as long as you kept secondaries closed( I tied them shut to find this out) and I had 3.73 with 700r4 trans. So I know I can win bet. Since I am playing with his money I kight as well have fun

Thoughts on EFI's. Easy to work with(self learning) and lower cost sill not hurt.
Works well for mileage and performance when you say F--k mileage.

I had a guy I rebuilt an engine for use a Holley sniper set up on a 67 gto. He is not a very mechanical person but he managed to get it installed and running on his own. Also am helping brother in law install one on his truck there with there we just finished a nice little 350 with aluminum heads and cam. Summit has a house brand that is a reboxed Fitech system and tech support is almost not there.

I’ve been playing with using hp tuners on various stock pcms.

Here’s a thought I’ve had about a potentially cheap efi conversion for an older motor:

Pickup a complete 4.8 or 5.3 with computer. Take the whole computer/sensor/injector/coil setup and adapt it to the sbc. I think these things would take a little work but not too bad:

1. Fuel rail hold down and alignment and TPS mounting
2. Temp sensor is metric thread
3. Crank sensor: pretty sure if the cpu is later 2000s you can buy a 58x wheel that bolts to a sbc balancer. If earlier 2000s you’d probably have to get a wheel water jetted or maybe get a factory replacement and machine it to bolt onto a sbc balancer. Fab a sensor holder.
4. Lots of options for cam sensor but I’d try to make one out of a stock distributor.

I think I’ve read about guys converting LT1 motors to LS1 pcms. Vaguely recall they might use a 24x trigger off of an 8.1 but that seems strange to me because the LS1 24x trigger waveform is an odd duck compared to the 8.1 version.

Anyway, seems like a guy with a little luck could probably sell the 4.8/5.3 afterwards for not a whole lot less than what he bought the whole thing for in the first place. Maybe even try to get one with the 4l60e or 80e attached and use that too. Use HP tuners to set the tune if you’re willing to spend a little bit of time learning.

an efi noob is going to get lost quick no matter how "simple" the system is

the simplest system is an alpha-n but it too requires some thought. Next would be a map system. There is also a hybrid map/alpha which I don't like either one map or alpha-n. MAF is where you want to be if you are tuning for economy. The MAF is a sensor that senses air that flows into the engine, thus the system can calculate load much more accurately with that known variable. That is the reason almost all factory systems use a mass airflow sensor.

but the maf system is also a little more complex.

i've heard of guys using mustang pushrod 5.0 computers on basically everything and they seem to work fine. The newer the better, but also more complex.

going through this myself and I can tell you from experience that you have a lot of learning to do.

keep in mind that not all aftermarket efi systems will control fuel AND spark. spark is a huge deal when it comes to engine tuning, particularly with efi...allows one to lean the mixture and retard the timing, such that drivability is ok but with a lean-burn, miles per gallon improves. That's just a very basic generality. On my old mustang (5.0 efi) it was built just halfway decently, made 410hp on the rollers at 6700, idled decent, and consistently knocked down 29-31 mpg on the highway through a 5 speed stick. 3.73 nonetheless. I paid to have someone tune that one, I am doing my own this time but with a lot more cubic inches. It's not easy. When I say spark is a huge deal, remember the old days when distributors had vacuum and mechanical advance? For a long time we had to put up with either decent mpg, or good power but not both. Part of that was due to (in)correctly advancing the spark at all engine loads. Either it was too much advance at higher loads or too little, no power, or pinging. With electronic control, you can have both-easily. I have seen as much as a 100lb-ft difference in engine torque just by playing with timing, and at part throttle. Torque gets you rolling down the road and spark=torque. I run 48 degrees at part throttle on my current mustang, it drops off as load increases to max 33 at full load. With that you can increase the spark at low load, and decrease the fuel a little...to an extent, resulting in good mpg good drivability good starting, etc.

I was hoping there was system that just controlled fuel using a throttle body and maybe MAF sensor if front of throttle body.

Would like to bypass having a system that controls spark if possible. We where looking to remain old school but with efi instead of carb. Like I said I have gotten in mid 20's with carb and educated foot.

Being old MFI guy all the black magic computer shyt is only thing that concerns me on whole deal. If I can see it I can make it work. Electric signals are not see able and harder for me to get handle on. Hence the reason I would cut racecar into pieces and sell the scrap before I would go EFI on it. Patients is a virtue and I never claimed to be virtues.

quote:

...and educated foot.

Since we're talking old school (my specialty), a vacuum gauge attached to the intake and mounted in the interior is a good monitor/motivator to stay light on the gas pedal.

I done a bunch of these on the dyno. The holley Sniper and the FiTech are the easiest with the most adjustment. Depending on your distributor, you need to lock it out and buy a adjustable rotor.
The holley kit 550-510K, 550-511k comes complete. The FiTech kits are the Efi unit in one and one of there fuel kit for another.
The holley has a cheesy O2 mount (bolt on) the FiTech can either bolt on or welded. I would get a real bung and weld it in place.

For what you want (old school look, ignition control), i would go with the Holley sniper complete kit.
you would be happy with either.

Joe

What year S-10? After '98 everything about gauges and the computer changed.
There are a lot of S10's running around with L31's or a variant getting good mileage. If you can find one with a 4.3L SPFI, the swap is super easy. Add a plenum spacer and upgraded injection setup and you should be close to your 20mpg with shelf parts and nothing exotic.

Well so far the two leaders are ones I had in mind. May go with Holley. As for o2 sensor it will be welded in regardless. If it get leaks this guy will never shut up.LOL

Will have to check year model, but pretty sure its pre 98. He has a used 4l60e trans that's out of 92 3/4 ton and I know it works because I sold it to him and was smoking the tires off truck to show him it worked.

We are back halving it today, well starting and installing narrowed 9" so he can run bigger rear tire. Lazy ******* does want to start till mid day.

I bought a 650CFM Holley for a 352CI Ford FE street engine, haven't installed it yet.
Now I'm wondering if anybody has a guesstimate how the MPG would compare if I went with an EFI or Holley injection system instead? Not even considering performance.

FE and MPG is a bit of a contradiction in terms. I would have to think the atomazation of the injection would help before it hits that flat intake manifold. Here's about the only thing worse than a stock cast iron FE intake....

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Koski:
I bought a 650CFM Holley for a 352CI Ford FE street engine, haven't installed it yet.
Now I'm wondering if anybody has a guesstimate how the MPG would compare if I went with an EFI or Holley injection system instead? Not even considering performance.

assuming the carb is set up properly, I would think that there wouldn't be a huge difference in MPG with simply going to EFI. However, add in spark control, and I can see a big difference in MPG. Use of the stock manifold wouldn't really gain much if you were to just bolt a throttle body style EFI to it, ideally would need to get the injectors to the ports which obviously would require a different intake. Would also knock about 70? lb off of the top of the engine. Those old iron FE intakes are pretty heavy. I forget what company it was, but there was a place that was offering TFI distributors for FE's, which would enable one to use a Mustang (or any other EEC-IV or EEC-V) computer to run an FE engine. Look around efidynotuning.com forums.

One thing I don't have to ever worry about is what works on Ford engine of any type. Had two at once. My first and last. Was first car .73 Mustang with no hp 302 POS. NOT MY CHOICE. I hated Fords before that car and it grew 10 times over with that car. Only way I own another Ford will be when I get Grandfather's 1919 model T that he bought from his uncle and owned from 1955 or so until he diead in 2008.

Don't think I have owned a OEM intake on anything except work trucks. Well not for more than month or two.

As stated I know I can knock out over 20 mpg with carb. Buddy wants FI on old school engine and maintain look of old school. A carb replacement style throttle body EFI is hopefully easy route to getting there. Getting good HP out of engine is always a concern and yes a mpg compromise . Idea is control that compromise and add ease and drivability of EFI especially with my hatred of carbs and tuning them. I have done it and not bad at it,but I don't like it.

I’ve only done one system. FAST. 67 Camaro 427/Edelbrock heads/550 roller hyd. Smallest injector was 36 lbs. made 547. It drives really nice, starts easily. We just put the bigger injectors in it and holy crap does it scream! It’s a 10 sec car with tires. I had Fastman EFI help with base tunes then we went to the dyno. Economy??? Nope...

BTW, I made the decision to give him 36 injectors first to break him in...he would have crashed it with big ones right away.

quote:

Only way I own another Ford will be...

To each his own, but I've always been of the mind set buy the best of what is offered at the time. Weather that was stereo equipment, cameras, cars, etc. I had a first gen Mercury Sable (Ford Taurus) and it was a great car. Currently have and old Mercury Grand Marquis (and no I'm not partial to Mercury's) and it's a good car as well. Have an old beater (that I turned into a beater) '98 Silverado and it's been a good vehicle. Also own a 2012 Corvette and it's a good car. So I've had very good results following my philosophy.

Oh, the wife just had to have a first gen Dodge Intrepid, and I am not a fan of Chrysler __________ (fill in corporate owner). Like you I had owned one previous Plymouth. But the Intrepid was a pretty decent car, had way too many trips back to the dealer for warranty work but Chrysler stood behind it.

I’d doubt if you can match fuel economy of the EFI with a carb. You would be constantly tuning it. This 427?gets maybe 10? Never checked it but he does not care. The new high hp cars are getting big numbers but there’s a lot to it.