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DRR Sportsman
Picture of Da Shoe
posted
I have enuff parts (minus cam) to piece together a spare motor. Just curious if anyone is running a 582 with Brodix BB2 XXtra heads. If so what cam?
 
Posts: 608 | Location: Da Swamp!!!! | Registered: October 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of SCDIV1
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I have a 584 in my car now....1900++ lbs

Brodix 3x smallish heads....ovals...

As a 565 this car went 7.40's at just under 180 with either a Ron's Terminator or a gas 1050 carb

Running S/C with a plate stop....8.90 at 175+ in real good air...

As a 584 so far with the same top end and cam it's run a little weaker.....8.90 at 174+...gas 1050 carb....


R-M 420-116 is the cam in it.....with 1.75 Jesel rockers....Never spun it higher than 7400 to 7500. It is a good cam that worked great in the 565 and never hurts anything....

I have talked to a number of racers that have had similar results ......a 565 running better than a 582..and both cam and head choice seems to get a little more picky with the 582....

If my engine was not all together in my car I'd probably be trying the R-M 420-117 or one of a couple different Comp Cams sticks....
 
Posts: 2733 | Location: Where ever I am, I'm here and it's me | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Da Shoe
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SCDIV1:
I have a 584 in my car now....1900++ lbs

Brodix 3x smallish heads....ovals...

As a 565 this car went 7.40's at just under 180 with either a Ron's Terminator or a gas 1050 carb

Running S/C with a plate stop....8.90 at 175+ in real good air...

As a 584 so far with the same top end and cam it's run a little weaker.....8.90 at 174+...gas 1050 carb....


R-M 420-116 is the cam in it.....with 1.75 Jesel rockers....Never spun it higher than 7400 to 7500. It is a good cam that worked great in the 565 and never hurts anything....

I have talked to a number of racers that have had similar results ......a 565 running better than a 582..and both cam and head choice seems to get a little more picky with the 582....

If my engine was not all together in my car I'd probably be trying the R-M 420-117 or one of a couple different Comp Cams sticks....


I was actually looking at the RM 420-117
 
Posts: 608 | Location: Da Swamp!!!! | Registered: October 30, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Bad News
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The 117 might be ok if you are intake tract undersized, 2.300 intake valve or smaller runner. It has a good bit of exhaust duration.
I would not use it with a 565, and 582 would be a minimum.
But...... with a 288 ya gonna need a converter that aint a 5500.
And it still is not going to be a turner, probably max power at 72-7300.
 
Posts: 868 | Location: ft laud | Registered: September 02, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SCDIV1:
I have a 584 in my car now....1900++ lbs

Brodix 3x smallish heads....ovals...

As a 565 this car went 7.40's at just under 180 with either a Ron's Terminator or a gas 1050 carb

Running S/C with a plate stop....8.90 at 175+ in real good air...

As a 584 so far with the same top end and cam it's run a little weaker.....8.90 at 174+...gas 1050 carb....


R-M 420-116 is the cam in it.....with 1.75 Jesel rockers....Never spun it higher than 7400 to 7500. It is a good cam that worked great in the 565 and never hurts anything....

I have talked to a number of racers that have had similar results ......a 565 running better than a 582..and both cam and head choice seems to get a little more picky with the 582....

If my engine was not all together in my car I'd probably be trying the R-M 420-117 or one of a couple different Comp Cams sticks....


Rich
Which heads do you have, 332, 351 or 365cc's?

I would not recommend the 117 cam, to much duration, especially the exhaust. The 582 would also like a a wider lobe separation.
What's lift can your springs take? I'd shoot for 284/300 or 302 on a 114 lobe separation with a .500" intake lobe and .475 exhaust lobe.
Take a look at Comp's 1729 intake and 1760 exhaust lobes. Unless you have the bigger heads and want to spin it around 7700 to 7800 I wouldn't add anymore duration.
 
Posts: 2136 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of SCDIV1
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Al I have “As Cast” ovals. Supposed to be around 340-345 Intake runners.

I worked them over some but it was mostly just a “shine job” and port match to the intake.

I did the exhaust side some but it did not show anything at the track.

I agree the -117 is not ideal.

I would prefer more lift with the 114 split and similar @.050 to the -116

I could probably go to .850 lift with the springs I’m using

If I had the motor out and apart I can just about guarantee I’d put a different set of heads on it. HH’s but I’m not doin it.

I decided to leave it alone and just race it as is.

Try a few things down the road.

I really didn’t expect to gain much MPH anyway.

I feel like I’m off about 2-3MPH

Very few runs last year on a mostly new short block.

Hopefully 2021 I can get out to more races.
 
Posts: 2733 | Location: Where ever I am, I'm here and it's me | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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if it were my engine, the cam in it would be

281/301 @ .050
.493/.476
.863/.833 w/1.75 rocker ratio
113 LSA
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR S/Pro
Picture of SCDIV1
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Nice looking specs Ed

If I get a burst of Senior energy I’d rip my engine out and get a different custom grind in there more like that one.

Al I’ll take a look at those CC lobes. Thanks

I generally always bought shelf grinds and used what worked reasonably well and didn’t trash parts

The R-M Erson grinds do both.

Decent 582’s usually run 8.90 at 177-178
 
Posts: 2733 | Location: Where ever I am, I'm here and it's me | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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It's what I do
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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Maybe everyone has already seen this but I figured I would share. Interesting. There is also an hour long seminar presentation by their engineer on YouTube.

https://youtu.be/wiaX6f7gxuI


Little off subject but I thought some would find it interesting anyway.


BG
 
Posts: 757 | Location: Florence, SC | Registered: August 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
Picture of adv ET 266
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I was very happy with the Comp cams with my Dart pro 1 360 cnc heads
CB 1719B/1760B 115 lsa
Use 1.8:1/1.7:1 rockers.
Don’t underestimate the value of the rocker ratio.
Top38 and John Kyle helped guide me
Reliable and good power

This message has been edited. Last edited by: adv ET 266,



2005 2000lb 4 link dragster
home brew 582 BBC Dart 355
1.058
2.98
4.629@149
6.094
7.310@185

 
Posts: 12149 | Location: 33463 | Registered: February 04, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of SCDIV1
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quote:
Originally posted by adv ET 266:
I was very happy with the Comp cams with my Dart pro 1 360 cnc heads
CB 1719B/1760B 215 lsa
Use 1.8:1/1.7:1 rockers.
Don’t underestimate the value of the rocker ratio.
Top38 and John Kyle helped guide me
Reliable and good power



Your car ran good Paul...alcohol Injected.....I think you meant 115LSA in your cam specs above...

My Ron's injection ran a little faster than using a 1050 carb on gas but not much...
I do have an alcohol 1150 APD carb and have had it on the shelf waiting to try it, but have been real happy running gas for 6 years...so it's tough to switch..


I just looked at the Comp Cams master lobe catalog and checked out those 3 lobes 1719 1729 and 1760....

They do have a couple shelf grinds that may use those lobes.....very close in specs...

I was looking at those a while ago....

Thanks for the replys...I appreciate it..

Happy New Year, almost !!
 
Posts: 2733 | Location: Where ever I am, I'm here and it's me | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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Rich, I haven't run a shelf grind since before I met you.

Spend the extra $ for a custom grind which gives you the core you want, a more precise cam and better quality control, being one off compared to one of a thousand or more copied from that master a
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of SCDIV1
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Ed I looked at the lobes Al Suggested and also what Paul used. Same exhaust lobe.....similar intake lobes but Al's with a little more lift

Al's suggestion looks good and should work... with the rest of my components

There is no doubt you have spec'd some good cams with whatever program you use....

Comp does sell 2 shelf grinds that look close but I may order a custom with those 2 lobes Al suggested....

I don't care about the cost but the time and effort to change it is more of the issue.

Engine has maybe 30 runs on it last year and I put it in the car around Feb or March...never made a run till around June or July...


Winning or Losing races by .001 or .002 or less happens no matter what MPH I run is normal and you know it........
 
Posts: 2733 | Location: Where ever I am, I'm here and it's me | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Elite
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I do and I nor anyone can tell you that a cam swap will pick you up ANY mph no mind the 2-3 you feel you are down. I'd set my sights much lower, much more realistic looking for 1 mph. If 1 MPH is worth the time and $ to swap cams then do it but as you said, Winning or Losing races by .001 or .002 or less happens no matter what MPH you run.
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SCDIV1:
quote:
Originally posted by adv ET 266:
I was very happy with the Comp cams with my Dart pro 1 360 cnc heads
CB 1719B/1760B 215 lsa
Use 1.8:1/1.7:1 rockers.
Don’t underestimate the value of the rocker ratio.
Top38 and John Kyle helped guide me
Reliable and good power



Your car ran good Paul...alcohol Injected.....I think you meant 115LSA in your cam specs above...

My Ron's injection ran a little faster than using a 1050 carb on gas but not much...
I do have an alcohol 1150 APD carb and have had it on the shelf waiting to try it, but have been real happy running gas for 6 years...so it's tough to switch..


I just looked at the Comp Cams master lobe catalog and checked out those 3 lobes 1719 1729 and 1760....

They do have a couple shelf grinds that may use those lobes.....very close in specs...

I was looking at those a while ago....

Thanks for the replys...I appreciate it..

Happy New Year, almost !!


Rich
When choosing a cam you should not just look at the .050 duration numbers, .020 and .200 matter just as much, along with overlap duration. Off the shelf cam lobes are usually not the same as the ones we are talking about here.
Also if you want to improve your heads at any time, I can help you out there too. The cam is just one piece of the combo! Speaking of specific lobes, the ones I have mentioned will work great in a bracket motor with no valve spring issues.
 
Posts: 2136 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
Picture of adv ET 266
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SCDIV1:
quote:
Originally posted by adv ET 266:
I was very happy with the Comp cams with my Dart pro 1 360 cnc heads
CB 1719B/1760B 115 lsa
Use 1.8:1/1.7:1 rockers.
Don’t underestimate the value of the rocker ratio.
Top38 and John Kyle helped guide me
Reliable and good power



Your car ran good Paul...alcohol Injected.....I think you meant 115LSA in your cam specs !


Yes and now corrected thanks.
BTW the 1.8:1 intake rocker on the 1719 lobe changes it a great deal for needed intake lift.
I don’t think CC charges more for a cam using their lobes when all you specify is the core and lsa? I would not compromise the build on that in any case. As expensive as these parts are, it makes sense to get what is best.

My 582 was the best BBC I every owned. Custom pistons, and Dart cylinder prep was a great deal of it. That engine sealed far better than any engine I built.

Good luck



2005 2000lb 4 link dragster
home brew 582 BBC Dart 355
1.058
2.98
4.629@149
6.094
7.310@185

 
Posts: 12149 | Location: 33463 | Registered: February 04, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of SCDIV1
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I hear ya Al....

I once contacted Brodix about the possibility of having my heads updated to some sort of CNC program.....No can do was their answer...

Their CNC version heads are different than the as cast versions......making problems possible if they tried to run their CNC program on my heads

I have also talked to a head porter who does fabulous head and intake work and as I expected.....
The cost would likely be high enough that selling them and buying something else made more sense....

I worked my heads over pretty good but very modest material removal.....no flow bench....45 degree seats and steel valves.....Little or no gain at the track every time I worked on those heads

Biggest gain I saw on this engine was going from a Brodix intake to the SV565....Picked up a solid 1-2 MPH

My best run in S/C mode was over 176 with a plate stop......faster than any runs with an inline or Dedenbaer open style slide stop....and yes I have run every type t-stop you can name....plates, inline's all on this same engine....Gas car, Terminator.....I like to experiment....

I've seen a few times people spend a lot on head and intake porting and results are basically they wasted a lot of money....little or no gain...

I have a friend who would buy my heads possibly with the rocker system that goes with them...offsets some of the cost to go to a different pair of heads and shaft system...

If my engine was in a stand I would not hesitate to probably make some changes and try that cam with the lobes you mentioned....I still might....

Some of my buds at the track have had this same experience going from a 565 to a 582 and one in particular is a pro engine builder wit.....even he said just last Sept it was his experience as well.....
 
Posts: 2733 | Location: Where ever I am, I'm here and it's me | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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quote:
Originally posted by SCDIV1:
Biggest gain I saw on this engine was going from a Brodix intake to the SV565....Picked up a solid 1-2 MPH.

Rich, tell us more about this.
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
Picture of adv ET 266
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I’m sure you know this, but that cam change would almost certainly need piston modifications, for good PV clearance, especially with SS valves. That was a great part of custom pistons, knowing the cam in advance resulted in plug and play more or less.



2005 2000lb 4 link dragster
home brew 582 BBC Dart 355
1.058
2.98
4.629@149
6.094
7.310@185

 
Posts: 12149 | Location: 33463 | Registered: February 04, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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