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M1 vs Regular Methanol?
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DRR Sportsman
Picture of FootbrakeJim
posted
I couldn't find any threads with meaningful information using the search tool.

What is it that makes VP M1 so "Special" that they charge triple the price of regular racing Methanol for it?

To my knowledge, any plain ol' $3 a gallon Alky is 99.8% pure or better, and I think the VP stuff is the same, (or maybe 99.9%). So, other than paying for the VP sticker on the drum, is there ANY advantage to using it over the working man's brew?

After freshening up my fuel system last week, I went to a local track that I haven't run at in a few years, just to fill a couple jugs so I can drive the car into the trailer, and hopefully make a pass or 2 this weekend. New fuel vendor. No prices posted for alcohol. I carried in 2 jugs, and as he topped one off, I asked what his price was. Proudly said "$45 for 5 gallons". I politely told him one jug would do.
He said "You sure? This is VP M1, it's the good stuff". I said yeah, if it's that good, 5 gallons should do what I need. Big Grin

Seriously, is there ANY reason to pay race gas money for alky? (Especially when I burn almost twice as much of it)? Eek

Time to call the local Sunoco distributor and get a barrel for a buck and a half, delivered...


Dan "Jim" Moore
Much too young to feel this damn old!!
 
Posts: 1045 | Location: Farmersville, TX  | Registered: December 05, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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No


Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right. Here I am.......
 
Posts: 5319 | Location: stuck in the middle with you! | Registered: March 11, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of BLIND MULE 2217
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Had a buddy that was a VP dealer. Said there was no difference in m1 and their racing methonal other than m1 came in new drums and rm came in refurbished drums. May be different now
 
Posts: 354 | Location: Opelika AL, | Registered: January 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of wideopen231
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Dang and I thought Piedmont was high at 25 for 5 gal.Hell at that rate buy cheap stuff and dump gallon nitro(27 per) per 4 gallon have 20% (buy volume)load at same price.LOL




America home of free. Brought to you by 2nd amendment.
 
Posts: 4236 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of rusty
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m1 is oxygenated,dont know how much it is worth in et


honesty is the best policy,insanity is a better deffense
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Posts: 1421 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of SC4400
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Methanol is CH3OH. So it is "oxygenated" by it's mere existence. It's not chemically possible to attach an extra oxygen atom to the methanol molecule. Methanol quality is a function of H2O content. Anything more than 1/10 of a percent H2O is off spec by industry standards. Getting that last bit of water out is possible, but very energy intensive. And you would need to get near 1/2 a percent H2O before you would notice power drop off.
However, that much water allows corrosive acids to be created, which can cause real damage if left in the fuel system.
If you have a bulk chemical facility in your area,you can often buy spec methanol that will run just like track methanol.They will even give you a copy of the COA, because they don't take delivery without one. You just have to keep it sealed up. It can't degrade like race gas.

Anyone tells you their methanol makes more power should be willing to tell you what they added to the soup. Cool

Ive been involved with methanol in my work for almost 40 years, and burning it for fun for 30+.

RIP


It's a dangerous time in America. The communists are inside the gates.
Our survival is not guaranteed.
 
Posts: 794 | Location: Lake Charles La | Registered: January 29, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of rusty
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joe is correct
https://vpracingfuels.com/wp-c...pec-Sheet.pdf?inline

Specification Sheet: M1 Methanol
(TYPICAL VALUES)
Specific Gravity: 0.795@ 60°F/15.6°C
Color: Clear & Bright
RVP: 4.6psi/31.7kpa
Oxygenated: Yes
Oxygen Content: 49.93% by weight
Purity: 99.85% minimum
Production: Elmendorf, Texas USA
Availability: Sealed Drums
and i should not have looked at this


honesty is the best policy,insanity is a better deffense
1.036, 6.16@ 224

 
Posts: 1421 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
Picture of SC4400
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Hmmmmm. A basic understanding of chemistry will explain why the molecules of methanol are@ 50% oxygen by weight. H2 weighs NOTHING, Its actually lighter than air. "Oxygenated" implies that O2 is added. It's not. Notice the purity spec. 100%- 99.85 = .15 max "impurity" That's the water.

RIP


It's a dangerous time in America. The communists are inside the gates.
Our survival is not guaranteed.
 
Posts: 794 | Location: Lake Charles La | Registered: January 29, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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quote:
Originally posted by SC4400:
Hmmmmm. A basic understanding of chemistry will explain why the molecules of methanol are@ 50% oxygen by weight. H2 weighs NOTHING, Its actually lighter than air. "Oxygenated" implies that O2 is added. It's not. Notice the purity spec. 100%- 99.85 = .15 max "impurity" That's the water.

RIP


^^^ Everything this man has said is true. It is chemically impossible to add “oxygen” to methanol. Methanol is already oxygenated. With the structure of CH3OH the oxygen is by far the heaviest molecule accounting for its high percentage in the product.

Methanol (CH3OH) when added with oxygen (O2) is essentially what happens during the combustion reaction inside the engine. CH3OH plus O2 creates CO2 and Water (H2O)

The more you tried to “oxygenate” methanol... the more water you are going to get in barrel of fuel.

The more pure the methanol is, the more refined it is... the less water it will contain
 
Posts: 809 | Location: Georgia | Registered: May 09, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Curly1
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Bottom line is VP is charging 3 times more for the name on the barrel.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

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Posts: 4060 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of FootbrakeJim
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^^^ Yup. Thanks guys. I am all for supporting the businesses that support our chosen sport. But not to the point where I am willing to pay 3x the price for the same product. I was thinking VP ought to at least throw in a free t-shirt for every 10 gallons you buy. But then it would be like wearing a shirt that says "I am a sucker, and spent an extra $6 per gallon for my fuel"... Big Grin


Dan "Jim" Moore
Much too young to feel this damn old!!
 
Posts: 1045 | Location: Farmersville, TX  | Registered: December 05, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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What is m5 chemically speaking?


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6421 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of rusty
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quote:
https://vpracingfuels.com/wp-c...pec-Sheet.pdf?inline

this,link in my 2cnd post


honesty is the best policy,insanity is a better deffense
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Posts: 1421 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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So methanol is methanol....except for m5? What makes it different? It's said that the tuneup is different and that is does make more power than m1?


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6421 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR S/Pro
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I thought that the only Methanol allowed was M1, (like in TD) ?

Bob
 
Posts: 3098 | Location: Lakeside, Ca | Registered: February 15, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Curly1
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M5 has Nitroparifins or something like that. Basically it is like adding 2 or 3% nitro. It will pick up your car some in many cases.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4060 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of 329L
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quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
M5 has Nitroparifins or something like that. Basically it is like adding 2 or 3% nitro. It will pick up your car some in many cases.



Only thing I will add is that it is more consistent. But that stuff is usually 55 + bucks per 5 gal pail.


Jeremiah Hall
 
Posts: 712 | Location: Evansville, IN | Registered: February 24, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 329L:
quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
M5 has Nitroparifins or something like that. Basically it is like adding 2 or 3% nitro. It will pick up your car some in many cases.



Only thing I will add is that it is more consistent. But that stuff is usually 55 + bucks per 5 gal pail.


I do not do the M5 thing, too rich for my blood. As for more consistent then I would think maybe your tune up is a little off?


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.

Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 4060 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of David Covey
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If I was to run M5 I'd do as Chris suggested.. Add a little CH3NO2.. Make it pop...lol

Dave


"It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance." -Thomas Sowell
 
Posts: 3313 | Location: American By Birth Texan By The Grace Of God  | Registered: April 29, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of 329L
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
quote:
Originally posted by 329L:
quote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
M5 has Nitroparifins or something like that. Basically it is like adding 2 or 3% nitro. It will pick up your car some in many cases.



Only thing I will add is that it is more consistent. But that stuff is usually 55 + bucks per 5 gal pail.


I do not do the M5 thing, too rich for my blood. As for more consistent then I would think maybe your tune up is a little off?



I thought the same thing after the first time I ran it, (I ended up being about .04 richer on the pill). So when I went back to alky, I played with it several times, and never could get the same consistency. I will say this, its not in-consistent on alky, its just more consistent on the m5, I notice it more when the race starts in the day and ends in the night.


Jeremiah Hall
 
Posts: 712 | Location: Evansville, IN | Registered: February 24, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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