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Anyone ever seen this brodix bb2 plus
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Picture of RacerVX54
posted
Took apart the motor yesterday and we think the problem for alum flakes in the motor are from the valve spring moving around in the pocket. motor is a old rehear-morrison 502 have ran it for years and this is something new. Last freshen up heads where completely gone threw new everything. Every spring pocket looks like this one. Springs are Manley Nextec.


https://photos.app.goo.gl/1S2M4M9kX4vvvpfMA

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RacerVX54,


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Brian Martin
Martin Racing
5.66 @121.55
 
Posts: 1378 | Location: Va.Beach .Va | Registered: August 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Brian, can't open your photo but based on your description, it sounds like you either have no shims under the springs and/or no spring cups/locators.
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Try now Ed


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Brian Martin
Martin Racing
5.66 @121.55
 
Posts: 1378 | Location: Va.Beach .Va | Registered: August 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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No cups for sure ,we talked about installing them


"Just Shut Up and Race"

Brian Martin
Martin Racing
5.66 @121.55
 
Posts: 1378 | Location: Va.Beach .Va | Registered: August 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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still no good for me. Cups will solve your problem

No shims?
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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yes need to protect the aluminum head with something.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6319 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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https://photos.app.goo.gl/1S2M4M9kX4vvvpfMA


"Just Shut Up and Race"

Brian Martin
Martin Racing
5.66 @121.55
 
Posts: 1378 | Location: Va.Beach .Va | Registered: August 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Do you think they came that way from RM? I guess that would shock me. Glad you found the issue.


BG
 
Posts: 757 | Location: Florence, SC | Registered: August 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Did you go to a smaller diameter spring on the last go round? Like from a 1.625 spring to a 1.55 or 1.50? I can't imagine running an aluminum head and no protection from the spring.

When I first saw your posts my thoughts were a spring eating a titanium retainer. A lack of head protection never crossed my mind.

For the record I use PAC-1325 springs, PAC-S103 seats, and PAC-R606 retainers.


nomad
Bruce Guertin


Easily distracted by bright shiny objects.

Wife says I'm a new adventure every day.


Call Automotive Performance Engines for all your complete engine building, dyno service needs 863-967-8781
 
Posts: 2544 | Location: Auburndale, Florida | Registered: October 19, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by nomad:
Did you go to a smaller diameter spring on the last go round? Like from a 1.625 spring to a 1.55 or 1.50? I can't imagine running an aluminum head and no protection from the spring.

When I first saw your posts my thoughts were a spring eating a titanium retainer. A lack of head protection never crossed my mind.

For the record I use PAC-1325 springs, PAC-S103 seats, and PAC-R606 retainers.



I bought the Manleys from Reher they looked it up in there files. Pretty sure its the right diameter hes taking the heads apart next week. I will no more then.


"Just Shut Up and Race"

Brian Martin
Martin Racing
5.66 @121.55
 
Posts: 1378 | Location: Va.Beach .Va | Registered: August 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Correct me if I'm wrong but, those valve springs don't look happy. Somehow, they're banging the edge of the pocket and rolled it. Harmonics?

Looking at the parts sheet from your engine. They don't list Manley springs. Just a 408-409 dual vasco jet valve spring. Maybe a generic spring wound to R&M specs.

Fix the heads, freshen the bottom end, and you'll be good to go.


nomad
Bruce Guertin


Easily distracted by bright shiny objects.

Wife says I'm a new adventure every day.


Call Automotive Performance Engines for all your complete engine building, dyno service needs 863-967-8781
 
Posts: 2544 | Location: Auburndale, Florida | Registered: October 19, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by nomad:
Correct me if I'm wrong but, those valve springs don't look happy. Somehow, they're banging the edge of the pocket and rolled it. Harmonics?

Looking at the parts sheet from your engine. They don't list Manley springs. Just a 408-409 dual vasco jet valve spring. Maybe a generic spring wound to R&M specs.

Fix the heads, freshen the bottom end, and you'll be good to go.


Reher recommended these springs so thats what we bought all good going back together after the head fix. Should last another few years lol

Also these are the 2nd set of manleys on these heads.


"Just Shut Up and Race"

Brian Martin
Martin Racing
5.66 @121.55
 
Posts: 1378 | Location: Va.Beach .Va | Registered: August 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You need either a spring cup or locator. Without either the spring is dancing around and rubbing on the spring pocket in the head.
 
Posts: 2125 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't know how close you run your springs from coil bind, so whichever you use (cups or locators)
recheck pressure and coil bind. They are .060" thick so they matter.
BTW, in your situation, I'd run the ID locator if it will fit inside your inner spring. No expanding the spring pockets needed that way. Cups are preferred, and maybe cutting for the cups could clean up the rolled/flaking aluminum....like others here I'm kinda surprised R&M would not have one of the two in there.


.
Dave



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Posts: 4428 | Location: Earth | Registered: February 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by imakehp:
I don't know how close you run your springs from coil bind, so whichever you use (cups or locators)
recheck pressure and coil bind. They are .060" thick so they matter.
BTW, in your situation, I'd run the ID locator if it will fit inside your inner spring. No expanding the spring pockets needed that way. Cups are preferred, and maybe cutting for the cups could clean up the rolled/flaking aluminum....like others here I'm kinda surprised R&M would not have one of the two in there.


Thanks for for the info. Yea going to call Reher next week.


"Just Shut Up and Race"

Brian Martin
Martin Racing
5.66 @121.55
 
Posts: 1378 | Location: Va.Beach .Va | Registered: August 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Funny, R&M doesn't list a spring seat on the parts list. This list is pretty detailed. I mean I was charged for one gallon of VP 114 used in the dyno test. As mentioned before there are separate part numbers for the retainers, locks, and springs. The BB-2+ heads are listed as "complete". Maybe they used the seats supplied by Brodix and changed out the springs, retainers, and locks.

I can't believe R&M would send an engine out with out spring seats. I can't find any pictures with the valve covers off but, I'm willing to bet there were spring seats on that motor when your Dad and I loaded it into your trailer.

If I were to hazard a guess and it's just a guess, you had springs seats until your heads were freshened last. Missing one, I'd say that's an accident. All of them gone it's time for either a conversation or a close inspection when the engine comes back.


nomad
Bruce Guertin


Easily distracted by bright shiny objects.

Wife says I'm a new adventure every day.


Call Automotive Performance Engines for all your complete engine building, dyno service needs 863-967-8781
 
Posts: 2544 | Location: Auburndale, Florida | Registered: October 19, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of RacerVX54
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quote:
Originally posted by nomad:
Funny, R&M doesn't list a spring seat on the parts list. This list is pretty detailed. I mean I was charged for one gallon of VP 114 used in the dyno test. As mentioned before there are separate part numbers for the retainers, locks, and springs. The BB-2+ heads are listed as "complete". Maybe they used the seats supplied by Brodix and changed out the springs, retainers, and locks.

I can't believe R&M would send an engine out with out spring seats. I can't find any pictures with the valve covers off but, I'm willing to bet there were spring seats on that motor when your Dad and I loaded it into your trailer.

If I were to hazard a guess and it's just a guess, you had springs seats until your heads were freshened last. Missing one, I'd say that's an accident. All of them gone it's time for either a conversation or a close inspection when the engine comes back.



Maybe dont know for sure its had 4 sears of springs since we have had it. Never had the issue until the last time it was freshened up.. No worries it will be fixed right burnouts in no time.


"Just Shut Up and Race"

Brian Martin
Martin Racing
5.66 @121.55
 
Posts: 1378 | Location: Va.Beach .Va | Registered: August 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of wideopen231
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no sprng cup was first thing that caught my eye. I have had troble getting cups for springs I have which are about .030 bigger than cups I have. While maybe not best deal I polished bottom coil enough to get them to fit. Then these are just some springs I bought off local racer who ran them one pass and changed springs and at cost I paid if they go bad little quicker I will still be good.




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Posts: 4132 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of rusty
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needs cups or inside locators


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1.036, 6.16@ 224

 
Posts: 1387 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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