quote:

Originally posted by DOTracer:

quote:

Originally posted by Roger McGinnis:

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Originally posted by DOTracer:
Now you could argue with a DOT cop it was under 10K on the axles if you take the tongue weight out of the picture, but that conversation will likely go his way.

You have to consider this. They only care about the weight on the axles. They don't make you disconnect and weigh the trailer by itself.

In the case of my old trailer, it only had 5200 lb axles and 15” wheels with Load Range E Maxxis tires. I felt I was at the limit of what a 15” tire should handle so I went with the highe capacity axles and 16” wheels & tires. Of course this has nothing to do with the DOT topic of weight on the axles as you mentioned.

The first thing the Commercial Inspectors that I know look at is the tire load capability and how old they are. Obviously the tire age for commercial is not the same as ours. Another thread topic.. Age..

I wish it was that easy here. Surprise, Surprise.
Portables. Gotcha ya.

quote:

Originally posted by TORQIN:
Most showhauler, Renegade, United, NRC, and these type of motorhomes are overweight on the front axle...hook the trailer up and it is under the max. I believe the officer said it was 15K max.

Most stacker trailers are overweight as well...go over the scale and weigh as you rolled onto the scale, then come around and go back over for a reweigh, before you repress the button for your reweigh, unhook the trailer. The
Press the button ...might not like what you see is my guess on the trailer if you are carrying 4 cars and our typical load of chit.

I have seen 13000 pounds or more removed from rear axles of motorhome by removing trailer on the reweigh...Goldrush says that's not an accurate measurement of tongue weight...wtf do I know, but any weight added to rear axles of my motorhome I call tongue weight...again what do I know...

I have moved my gooseneck ball around looking for the perfect amount of weight off the front without overloading the rear. Moving the ball back 2' takes 700ish #'s off the front axle.

My stuff is near 50K#. I have not weighed it with the lift and second car yet, but I'm pretty sure it'll be about 14,500# on the steer, 19,999 on the drive, and about 15,000# on the trailer.

One car, no lift, half fuel, full of everything else to go racing.

latest weigh slip by neetchracer, on Flickr

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:
I believe 100 lbs of tongue weight actually adds a little more than 100 lbs to the rear axle depending on the distance from the axle to the hitch.

This is exactly correct. I was going to move my ball back ****her to keep leveraging weight off the steer, but I realized it was adding weight to my drive axle. It's a balancing act for sure.

The DOT basically doesn't even know their own rules, laws, and regs-at least I don't think so.

On their web page, it specifically states that you need an A if you are towing a trailer that has a rating of over 10,000 lb and combined trailer rating and truck rating of 26,001 or greater. Now, that means to "us" that if the "R" in the GVWR of our trailer is 10,001 lb and since most newer dually pickups have a towing capacity of 20,000 lb+, so that's what the officer that got us was going after. And they got us, too, on that loophole. But if you go into the actual owners manual, the GVWR of the truck is 10,100, with a trailer GVWR of 14,400 that's well under the 26,001. That does not matter to the DOT, nor to the court, thus we had to pay the fine and court costs, and can no longer "legally" deliver even 70 hp tractors to consumers. When I got the call from our driver, I asked him to put the officer on the phone. He wouldn't even talk to me. I told the driver to tell the officer that I'd be there in a few minutes with our attorney. Officer called me back at the shop and explained the situation. I asked the officer what the axle weights were, and he did not even bother weighing them...thus we had a problem. We were WELL under 26,001 actual weight. Again the court ruled against us based on the wording.

Just seems to me like they interpret the "rules" such that it benefits them and the government and throwing us hobby racers under the bus. But they "are the government and can do whatever they want". Yes-quoted directly.

First the IRS now the DOT. After the former, I lost all trust in our "system"-and after a few years I started to regain some of it. Now this, and I absolutely have zero trust in any of them and it's going to take a long time (if ever) to regain it.

As I understand it, many hotshot drivers were former truckers who either lost their CDL, or didn't want to mess with the hassles of having a CDL. So instead of having a larger truck that would require one based on the truck's GVWR, they'd buy a 1 ton pickup and a flat bed, which would put them under the threshold weight. So the highway police (at least around here) have been hitting campers, hotshots, delivery drivers, race car rigs, basically everyone that they "think" might be over. Of course they have to find a reason to stop you and they have thousands of reasons from tire tread depth to tail lamps to cracked windshields, and if they want money, they're gonna find a way to get it one way or another. That's my opinion.

Yup. I took my Class A cdl test with a 3500HD dually and a 14K# 20' open trailer. Most racers are "non commercial", so basically the cdl thing does not apply. If your looking commercial though, your a target.

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Originally posted by Mike Nitzsche:
Yup. I took my Class A cdl test with a 3500HD dually and a 14K# 20' open trailer. Most racers are "non commercial", so basically the cdl thing does not apply. If your looking commercial though, your a target.

The DOT’s arguement is we race for a purse so we’re considered commercial.

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Originally posted by DOTracer:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Nitzsche:
Yup. I took my Class A cdl test with a 3500HD dually and a 14K# 20' open trailer. Most racers are "non commercial", so basically the cdl thing does not apply. If your looking commercial though, your a target.

The DOT’s arguement is we race for a purse so we’re considered commercial.

Right, (oh boy, here we go again....lol) but if you follow the FMCSA non commercial guidelines, like I do, your hobby racing is not commercial. I have called my state several times about this, 77% of the time I get the "motorhomes are not commercial, period" response. the other 23% I get the "anyone racing for a prize is commercial" response. I have not gotten the second response in quite a few years, but that is why I went ahead and got a cdl.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Nitzsche,

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I have seen 13000 pounds or more removed from rear axles of motorhome by removing trailer on the reweigh...Goldrush says that's not an accurate measurement of tongue weight...wtf do I know, but any weight added to rear axles of my motorhome I call tongue weight...again what do I know...

They are correct, it's actually less because you are now adding the weight removed from the scales (if there where) that are under the front tires. Tongue weight is measured right at that ball. 13,000 is a crazy amount of tongue weight for any tag.

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11,500
1900 on the tongue

minimized front weight, No generator

should be less than 1900 on front now, but still don't like the tongue weight.

That is scary, and my suggestion would be to not endanger yourself or anyone else. You need to find a way to get rid of about 800 to 1000 pounds. Your fuel economy will increase, the motorhome will have more power and you will be much safer.

Is this 30 foot trailer a dual axle trailer?

Assuming it is, and assuming you really can't move weight, speak to the manufacture about adding a 3rd axle.

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I have called my state several times about this, 77% of the time I get the "motorhomes are not commercial, period" response. the other 33% I get the "anyone racing for a prize is commercial" response.

They are both correct. It all depends on how you answer that officer at your window.

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Originally posted by mavman:
On their web page, it specifically states that you need an A if you are towing a trailer that has a rating of over 10,000 lb and combined trailer rating and truck rating of 26,001 or greater. Now, that means to "us" that if the "R" in the GVWR of our trailer is 10,001 lb and since most newer dually pickups have a towing capacity of 20,000 lb+, so that's what the officer that got us was going after. And they got us, too, on that loophole. But if you go into the actual owners manual, the GVWR of the truck is 10,100, with a trailer GVWR of 14,400 that's well under the 26,001. That does not matter to the DOT, nor to the court, thus we had to pay the fine and court costs, and can no longer "legally" deliver even 70 hp tractors to consumers. When I got the call from our driver, I asked him to put the officer on the phone. He wouldn't even talk to me. I told the driver to tell the officer that I'd be there in a few minutes with our attorney. Officer called me back at the shop and explained the situation. I asked the officer what the axle weights were, and he did not even bother weighing them...thus we had a problem. We were WELL under 26,001 actual weight. Again the court ruled against us based on the wording.

Can you copy and paste the wording from the website that you are referring to?

I've always understood that if the trailer rating is over 10,000 lb, you need a Class A to pull it, period. Doesn't matter what the whole combination is rated for, or what the actual weight is.

quote:

Originally posted by Lenny5160:

quote:

Originally posted by mavman:
On their web page, it specifically states that you need an A if you are towing a trailer that has a rating of over 10,000 lb and combined trailer rating and truck rating of 26,001 or greater. Now, that means to "us" that if the "R" in the GVWR of our trailer is 10,001 lb and since most newer dually pickups have a towing capacity of 20,000 lb+, so that's what the officer that got us was going after. And they got us, too, on that loophole. But if you go into the actual owners manual, the GVWR of the truck is 10,100, with a trailer GVWR of 14,400 that's well under the 26,001. That does not matter to the DOT, nor to the court, thus we had to pay the fine and court costs, and can no longer "legally" deliver even 70 hp tractors to consumers. When I got the call from our driver, I asked him to put the officer on the phone. He wouldn't even talk to me. I told the driver to tell the officer that I'd be there in a few minutes with our attorney. Officer called me back at the shop and explained the situation. I asked the officer what the axle weights were, and he did not even bother weighing them...thus we had a problem. We were WELL under 26,001 actual weight. Again the court ruled against us based on the wording.

Can you copy and paste the wording from the website that you are referring to?

I've always understood that if the trailer rating is over 10,000 lb, you need a Class A to pull it, period. Doesn't matter what the whole combination is rated for, or what the actual weight is.

That is correct. A class B is a single vehicle over 26001# and it can haul a trailer 10000# and under. Any COMMERCIAL vehicle hauling a trailer tagged over 10001# needs an A.

This is why there is a HUGE amount of equipment trailers rated at 9999#.

Another thing to consider is it's against the law to have a missing vin tag on a trailer. Because most trailers use a janky paper sticker for a vin, it's very common to get new vin plates made. This is a service commonly found on the net. It's not illegal. I had a new plate made for my trailer to reflect the heavier axles that were installed. I don't see why you couldn't go the other way and get your trailer bumped down to 9999#. As long as it's close, I don't believe you'll ever have a problem with a truck and trailer.

I had to take the Malibu to South Mountain Dragway this weekend to get the SFI chassis recertified. On the way home I swung by the CAT scales to weigh the new trailer.

Trailer fully loaded with car, golf cart, fuel, generator, tools, etc. Trailer was disconnected from the truck on the scale blocks.







Was a bit surprised the weight came in a couple hundred pounds lighter than I had calculated. Maybe there was something I forgot to load? lol

I also weighed the tongue weight with a spare hitch I have here (Weigh Safe) that has a built in tongue weight scale. Trailer completely empty, 650 lbs tongue weight, fully loaded, 1000 lbs tongue weight.



EDIT: I forgot to mention the new trailer is 1750 lbs lighter than the previous steel trailer. As a side note, the old trailer had 1750 lbs of tongue weight with the same basic car/golf cart arrangement, just the cabinets along the left wall and the golf cart against the front wall, plus a large 300 lb 8500 watt generator in the compartment. Removing the large generator and slideout knocked the tongue weight down to 1550 lbs. Even empty the old trailer had 1000 lbs of tongue weight.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: <DOTracer>,

Nice upgrade in trailer and reaching your weight goal.

So the trailer tong is 1000 lb loaded. Do you know how much weight is removed from the truck hitch when the equalizer is in place?

I like the 6.4 Hemi you chose with the 2500. What’s your opinion of the pulling power in your area?

quote:

Originally posted by markemark:
Nice upgrade in trailer and reaching your weight goal.

So the trailer tong is 1000 lb loaded. Do you know how much weight is removed from the truck hitch when the equalizer is in place?

I like the 6.4 Hemi you chose with the 2500. What’s your opinion of the pulling power in your area?

I didn't scale the whole rig with the W/D hitch connected. Didn't think about it till I was on the road home. I can go back another time to reweigh. I'm kinda addicted to the CAT scales. lol

I've had two Cummins trucks in the past. A 2003 5.9L and a 2015 6.7L.

With the 4.10 gears the 6.4L Hemi pulls quite well. Actually pulls away from a stop as good or quicker than the diesel with the 3.42's. My normal tow around the beltway and up RT95 to Cecil has no issues with power. Now the trip to South Mountain had me going up and down the hills in the orchards south of York Springs. This certainly tested the gasser, but I had no issue maintaining speed, just took more throttle and more rpm.

That's the biggest thing I see between the diesel and gas. The diesel can lug up a hill at low rpm due to the torque where the gas truck needs rpm. The only real negative is a loss of fuel mileage. My truck is daily driven which is 13 miles (20 minutes) each way to work. With the diesel the engine barely got to full operating temp till I got to work. Not good for the engine and didn't give ample time for a complete regen.

IMO, the gas truck makes a much better daily driver. With 900 lbs less weight sitting on the front wheels, the handling is like a sports car in comparison. I couldn't get more than 20k on a pair of front tires as the nose heavy diesel would plow through turns.