After 8 solid seasons of service, my trusty 399” 15* Motor list oil pressure and grabbed a rod...under power and on the bottle. There was enough parts destroyed that I scrapped everything but the heads....and decided to sell them and start completely over!










We are slow to get moving on the new piece but should be worth the wait...Dart Billet 4.50” bore space, 9.350 deck, .443 raises can block, Bryant billet 8 counter weight crank, Carrillo Billet Rods, dry sump...heads...have been my struggle. I have a set of GM ROX heads and they are currently at RFD being evaluated, but more than likely I will buy a new set of DB4510 symmetrical port heads with sheet metal intake...

One step forward and 5 steps back. I rushed through not this 4.5” bore space deal not realizing thy the ROX platform utilized the SB2 block lifter layout...so I’m married to an SB2 playform...no DB4510 heads for me. The other problem is very few people have a ROX program...and them being trophy truck take offs, they are on the small side 2.18 intake valve. Just doing some research and making calls, they can be welded up reported with 2.31 valves pulling its current flow numbers up from 420 to 460+ right where we need to be at 470”!

I did mock everything up so I can start fitting the dry sump system...that will be challenging. This car was already narrow...now it has a wide block and raised deck. But damn, it’s sexy!!!

Did you buy the intake and heads used together? Why is the number 4 port on the intake positioned like that?

Good luck with your build.

quote:

Originally posted by TOP38:
Did you buy the intake and heads used together? Why is the number 4 port on the intake positioned like that?

Good luck with your build.

No I didn’t buy the intake. A friend has two CFE manifoldsoff his SB2 comp motor and I grabbed one to see how different the ROX Head is...as you can tell, the intake port arrangement is quite different. As soon as we decide on welding up and reporting what we have or buying virgin castings and starting fresh, the heads will go to HRE for an intake.

Sounds like a wild build! What kind of power or you expecting it to make?

quote:

Originally posted by rs72z:
Sounds like a wild build! What kind of power or you expecting it to make?

I learned a long time ago not to “expect” anything!!! Lol Based on similar, but extreme max effort builds, I’m trying to make just under 1100 N/A. Reality is it will make just a tic over 1000 depending on some final decisions on piston design and what I end up doing with heads. I tend to like the option of being able to spray so past motors have had piston/ring/cam combos to be a little forgiving but scarifies max effort N/A.

I’m struggling with the heads tht came with this deal...GM ROX castings ported by Vic Hill...they were on a 470” deal and made right at 900 with a cast manifold and 4150, but it has a 2.15 valve. Everyone has discontinued these castings, but there are a few raw sets out there. M&M wants me to relocate lifter bores and use there M3 Head, MBE wants me to use therebillet Head at $17k, Slawko will weld these up and move things around for a small few (lol). At this point, I have to give a huge shout out to. Yetis at RFD...he has one of the heads now lookingnit over. He doesn’t have a 4.5” bore space SB2 program and hasn’t had a demand...so he referred me to CFE.for any business man to refer you to competition for the better of the customer says a lot. CFE does have castings and does have a program, but again, at a price...after I get over the sticker shock this may be the route I go...just might not have it together this season. If I go that route...it should make an honest 1100+

Build went on hold...cylinder head money just went to my sons braces and CFE is still evaluating my current castings...boo

Amazing how your kid didn't have crooked teeth until the orthodontist's wife found a new leather pit group she fell in love with, huh?

Bringing this old thread up, I would like to know what you ended up doing and how it runs?

I am currently building a very similar motor.
463" Dart Tall deck aluminum block 9.325, .391 raised cam 50 mm roller bearing cam
M&M SB2.2 heads Titanium valves Jesel shaft rockers.
M&M single Dominator intake.
.875 LSM cam (waiting on it, takes 16 weeks to do)
16 to 1 CP Carillo pistons.
Dan Oslen wet sump pan.

Will probably go with the RCD gear drive on it and not sure on carb.

Will take several gas and alcohol carbs with me on dyno day(s)

My plan with this motor is 50 or 100 Nitrous shot on top to run the number. Be able to have car leave relatively soft with good top end charge. This should be good for 940 Hp on motor?

For ignition I am considering getting away from MSD and trying the Mega Squirt MS3 Pro Ultimate. There is several reasons for that as it is able to do a lot of things and more or less all in one package. Also give me the opportunity to go to Electronic fuel injection later with Enderle hat which would make it start easier, use much less fuel driving around pits, warm up faster and have good control over fuel curve. The MS3 can control Nitrous as well. Right now I am concentrating on building this motor and a few others first so I do not have to change ignition / rewire car right now but may be worth it.

Any thoughts or experience with the MS3 ignition?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Curly1,

quote:

Any thoughts or experience with the MS3 ignition?

Choose what you like. Prior to purchasing you should have a firm understanding and working knowledge of the system software you selected. This means programming knowledge and understanding of the ecu functions and wiring. Look for YouTube videos to learn from and forums for help. No one here to hold your hand programming, and even paying for it many times doesn’t get what you want. You learn little paying to have it done. A knowledgeable coach is good if you can find one.

EFI will not be any faster when switching from carb or mfi. Only more and easier fuel control at a greater expense. The integrated data acquisition is a cost reduction offset.

MSD with distributor isn’t bad. I don’t use cnp and don’t want it. I use ecu efi fuel control, but Grid has full ignition control, not ecu. ECU cannot do what I want in ignition control switching between two different types of fuel delivery methods.

quote:

Originally posted by markemark:
Choose what you like. Prior to purchasing you should have a firm understanding and working knowledge of the system software you selected. This means programming knowledge and understanding of the ecu functions and wiring. Look for YouTube videos to learn from and forums for help. No one here to hold your hand programming, and even paying for it many times doesn’t get what you want. You learn little paying to have it done. A knowledgeable coach is good if you can find one.

^^^This^^^

I had a so-called tuner for my Holley System. The best thing I did was to shyt can him!

2BKING

quote:

Originally posted by Curly1:
Bringing this old thread up, I would like to know what you ended up doing and how it runs?

We ended up not building anything...just buying.

My wife suprised me with a 462" SB2 from a good friend. Dart Iron Eagle, tall deck, dry sump spread rail, raised cam, 50mm cam, cast intake and a single 2.200 CFM carb. Its an old build but all new in 2019. NOS deal....

To be honest, I am not a fan of the bigger cubic inch and the SB2. Car has been 4.57 on motor (NOS cam) and runs low 4.60s in the heat. I am fighting the converter, but runs decent.

I really am considering knocking the 4.250 arm out and putting a 4" in it.

I us the ms3 pro ultimate in two cars. Another benefit other than the great ignition control is data collection. I’d recommend 8 ls coils .
What are you using for a dash?

I would love to observe where you mount it and the wiring process. I’m bringing mine over to a new car and really want to step up my wiring neatness

quote:

Originally posted by OhiomafiaWireGuy:

quote:

Originally posted by Curly1:
Bringing this old thread up, I would like to know what you ended up doing and how it runs?

We ended up not building anything...just buying.

My wife suprised me with a 462" SB2 from a good friend. Dart Iron Eagle, tall deck, dry sump spread rail, raised cam, 50mm cam, cast intake and a single 2.200 CFM carb. Its an old build but all new in 2019. NOS deal....

To be honest, I am not a fan of the bigger cubic inch and the SB2. Car has been 4.57 on motor (NOS cam) and runs low 4.60s in the heat. I am fighting the converter, but runs decent.

I really am considering knocking the 4.250 arm out and putting a 4" in it.

Really nice surprise from wife!

Why would you want to put shorter crank it it? Understand you can get more power and RPM per cube but overall power should be down some with smaller cubic inch?

Bucky, I am not sure what I am going to do on this. I was originally going to build this for NE2 a 5.00 index and use restrictor plates to slow it down. Now I have better heads and cam and it may be able to run the Outlaw 4.60 class.
Problem NE2 does not allow and electronics like the MS3 or grid. The Outlaw 4.60 class anything goes except SLE to timed throttle stops. Should I go to Outlaw class I would have to change all of the ignition and make some chassis changes and probably use a small shot of Nitrous.
Do not have a problem with that, one of my problems here is time frame. I probably will not have cam until around Christmas. I have most everything else. With a motor like this everything is custom and takes forever to get. Will know more after I get cam and dyno the thing.