We just got done with a 582, dart 355 cnc heads out of the box, no port work. 14.0:1 comp, cam is a crower grind, 807/792 lift, 284/297 duration @.050, 114 lobe center, installed at 110. Rons terminator, little bubbas, 4.10 gears, 1950 pound dragster. First pass out of the trailer 4.72 @ 145.0, with extremely fat fuel curve. has 60's in it for sure. That being said, the 4.10's are not your problem and the big bubbas might be costing you .05. Dont understand why the cam is so big. When I called several of the cam experts, they were all almost exactly in the specs of the cam I installed. I do know that they all wanted low exhaust duration for an alky application, too much exhaust duration lets too much heat escape.
March 08, 2019, 01:13 PM
Mike Frizie
that's where we thought we'd be at. we went with these heads RFD 24-b Just don't know what I'm missing.
Michael Frizie ET 2471
March 10, 2019, 02:30 PM
BIG SPEED
Dyno numbers ? Bill C.
Checkered Flag Machine and Ceralli Competition Engines checkeredflagmachine.net/ Racing engines and induction development
March 10, 2019, 02:38 PM
Mike Frizie
Home built. No access to dunno unfortunately
Michael Frizie ET 2471
March 10, 2019, 03:09 PM
SCDIV1
Home built 565...No dyno built back in winter 2013-2014
15-1 Diamond 48 cc dome .043 .043 3mm rings gas ported pistons.
Short block came from Tracy at Sunset.... Bought it Unassembled...I put it together
R-M shelf cam 420-116 grind in at 109 4-7 swap.....chain set no belt...
Heads....3X Ovals.....as cast small port heads...340 CC with some minor cleanup done by me and I checked the valve job as it can s-u-c-k out of the box....
Brodix intake back then...
Rons Terminator 2100 Unit. 0-1/2 pump 39 nozzles.....pills usually around 80
Had some issues at first with valve train but fixed it and installed a Jesel rocker set and its been bulletproof since..
First time out after fixing it..in typical but good June Jersey air 1500' DA ...at 1950-1975lbs..(weighed at the track)
1.078 3.050 4.735 145.53 6.202 7.456 178.31
Shifting on time and no more than 7000-7200 max..and was lowering shift points trying to stay above 7.50...No ADV ET license...
4:11 gear....33.5 tires.....7400 at the stripe.
The same car and engine ran 7.47 178 with a gas 1050 carb at the same track in the spring....
Best MPH was just under 180 with the Terminator....
Last time I bracket raced it with the gas carb it ran 7.56 177+ on a warm day....
I primarily run S/C and it has run 8.90 at 176 but generally under 175....
I chose smaller runner heads knowing I would likely run mostly T/Stop racing and swapped to a gas carb and a plate stop once I stopped bracket racing with it....
I've seen other guys with 565's and ported heads and custom cams and they are usually running less MPH than I am...
I did swap the intake for an Edelbrock SV565 and its a little faster than the Brodix.....
The above numbers are right off a ticket I just looked at....I usually toss them out but saved that one.....
I ran the car at Numidia in very hot humid condtions with a DA of nearly 4000' that weekend...Went a best of 7.57 176+ at night.....and that was with the Terminator.....
March 11, 2019, 05:12 AM
Mike Frizie
The heads no good? That’s two motors running about what I thought this one shoukd be at the same weight.
Michael Frizie ET 2471
March 11, 2019, 06:56 AM
SCDIV1
A good friend races S/C and has a 565 in a Quay car and its probably lighter than my Racetech
He Had his heads and intake ported by RFD...and got a custom Bullet cam recommended by RFD.
I don't recall what heads he has but he does have a Sniper intake...
My car is always faster MPH and usually by about 2 mph....after all the work he had done...
He's uses a billet APD 1150 running alcohol...and I think his car goes 7.60's wide open.....
582's are usually a couple MPH faster than me.....
When an engine is weak, the parts probably are either a poor match or there is something wrong with the basics.....
Ring seal, drag, compression, ports mismatched, pistons hitting heads....
You can try 10 cams and there won't be a tenth difference.....
Converters are always a possible place to lose ET and MPH but not usually if its built by a good builder...
I use a Select 9" and it flashes to about 6200 WOT......It's a spragless…
Its tough to figure out why an engine is weak without a dyno session or tearing it apart to try and see what might be wrong visually....
March 11, 2019, 07:07 AM
Mike Frizie
All my cylinders show equal compression and leak less than 10%, so i assume mechanically im ok . I don’t know. Yes, the heads and intake came from RFD, and they recommended Bullet for a cam, which was fine because we have been using them for our cams and lifters prior with good results. Carb is a new 1250 built by apd for this motor. Oxygen senor data shows the carbs jetted pretty close.
Michael Frizie ET 2471
March 11, 2019, 07:46 AM
Randy Weber
Forgot to mention, Im running a Hughes GM 95 9" converter, flashes to 6500 and falls back to 6600 on the shift. Dont remember if you gave any converter info?
March 11, 2019, 07:53 AM
Mike Frizie
FTI 9inch tgat currently stals 6400, falls back 600rpm on the shift ( which if memory serves was 6700)This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Frizie,
Michael Frizie ET 2471
March 11, 2019, 02:04 PM
NC3x58
quote:
Originally posted by SCDIV1: Home built 565...No dyno built back in winter 2013-2014
15-1 Diamond 48 cc dome .043 .043 3mm rings gas ported pistons.
Short block came from Tracy at Sunset.... Bought it Unassembled...I put it together
R-M shelf cam 420-116 grind in at 109 4-7 swap.....chain set no belt...
Heads....3X Ovals.....as cast small port heads...340 CC with some minor cleanup done by me and I checked the valve job as it can s-u-c-k out of the box....
Brodix intake back then...
Rons Terminator 2100 Unit. 0-1/2 pump 39 nozzles.....pills usually around 80
Had some issues at first with valve train but fixed it and installed a Jesel rocker set and its been bulletproof since..
First time out after fixing it..in typical but good June Jersey air 1500' DA ...at 1950-1975lbs..(weighed at the track)
1.078 3.050 4.735 145.53 6.202 7.456 178.31
Shifting on time and no more than 7000-7200 max..and was lowering shift points trying to stay above 7.50...No ADV ET license...
4:11 gear....33.5 tires.....7400 at the stripe.
The same car and engine ran 7.47 178 with a gas 1050 carb at the same track in the spring....
Best MPH was just under 180 with the Terminator....
Last time I bracket raced it with the gas carb it ran 7.56 177+ on a warm day....
I primarily run S/C and it has run 8.90 at 176 but generally under 175....
I chose smaller runner heads knowing I would likely run mostly T/Stop racing and swapped to a gas carb and a plate stop once I stopped bracket racing with it....
I've seen other guys with 565's and ported heads and custom cams and they are usually running less MPH than I am...
I did swap the intake for an Edelbrock SV565 and its a little faster than the Brodix.....
The above numbers are right off a ticket I just looked at....I usually toss them out but saved that one.....
I ran the car at Numidia in very hot humid condtions with a DA of nearly 4000' that weekend...Went a best of 7.57 176+ at night.....and that was with the Terminator.....
What weight was this run at?
Nick Craig
1971 Camaro Split Bumper 376ci LS3
March 11, 2019, 02:12 PM
SCDIV1
Car weighs 1975 and I've weighed it at 2 tracks seeing the same numbers. Etown and Maple Grove...
Racetech……...050" thick body panels, 2 batteries, accusump, dual brakes.....etc
I weigh 150-160lbs so I was surprised myself how heavy it is.
My old car was 100+lbs lighter.....
March 11, 2019, 05:17 PM
27Keith
The .050 body is about 15 lb heavier than an .040. Remove 1 battery and 1 set of calipers and save about 50 lb ! Got a wing on the car ? What angle is it at ? .03 and 1 mph in the 1/8 th and .05 and 2 mph in the 1/4. Carbon wing is 15-20 lb.
4 X Track Champion ( 2 & 2 ) 2 X Run off Winner
March 12, 2019, 06:14 AM
GEAR_HEAD
quote:
Originally posted by TOP38: Built a 582 . Seems kinda off/slow. Rfd 24-b, 383cfm heads. 15:1. Cam specs are 900/855, 282:292@.050,113 lobe center insralled to 109 per cam card. 1950lb dragster, 4.10 with mt 15/35/16,s.apd 1250 alky. Ign timing @34.Best mph 140/141 so far. Thoughts? Comments?
Now you went to a 278/300 .900/.890 114 cam.
First the heads aren't 383 CFM, betting that's the CC of the intake runner!
Second, your original cam was not bad! So I don't know what you were expecting. Without more details of what the combo and more specifically the rpm range your turning the motor anything else is just a guess other than why did you take intake duration away?
BBC love lift, you had good numbers there to start with. Ex lift is much less sensitive in your combo so the added lift did nothing.
You stated it's slow and I agree but the original cam nor the second is the real reason. Something else is not in sink with the combo! This motor should make 1000 hp easy and I'd ballpark your at 850 ish. There is no cam out there that will give you another 150 HP...
March 12, 2019, 06:21 AM
GEAR_HEAD
You mentioned that you popped your engine,did you have your converter checked afterwards? I agree with top38 something not in sync with your combination.
March 13, 2019, 08:30 AM
183N
quote:
Originally posted by DRB Motorsports: The heads no good? That’s two motors running about what I thought this one shoukd be at the same weight.
I talked to Curtis when I first built my 555. Nice guy to talk to on the phone but ended up not buying heads from him, went with the CFE BMF 350. He wanted to sell me a 385 head which I thought would be too big for the combination.
Local racer put a set of RFD’s on his 565 in his dragster and it would run 7.70s/80s. He turned it into a 582 and now it goes high 50s. Not impressed.
I’ve been 4.64/148 and 7.32/182 in good air at 1910# with the BMFs out of the box. Best 60’ of 1.051. Typically low 7.40s at 178. My wife’s car has Dart 355 CNC heads out of the box on her 540, she’s been 7.43/180 in good air, typically low 50s at 176.
March 13, 2019, 09:31 AM
Mike Frizie
geeez guys
Michael Frizie ET 2471
March 13, 2019, 10:44 AM
SCDIV1
I have to admit we race in some real good conditions sometimes up here compared to other parts of the country.
Atco and Etown where I raced many, many times are generally very fast conditions in spring and fall
That makes our stuff run faster just by itself, sometimes....
Numidia is the slowest track in my area. I race there occasionally....not often
It's 1200' up I think and the last time I bracket raced there I went right around 7.60 176 in air approaching 4000'
I went 7.57 when I lost at 12:30 that sat night...air was a ton better.
During the day it was very hot and humid a lot like the real poor conditions other areas of the country run in all the time....
Numidia is generally close to a tenth slow from a lot of other tracks around here...Lebanon Valley is a little slower also but not as much as Numidia....
March 13, 2019, 06:19 PM
adv ET 266
When looking at a great running long car with cast iron 582, there’s a great deal to making the combination. The engine is part and the cam, but only if they match the rest. You would be surprised what a piston/ring/cyclinder finish delivers, compared to shelf pistons and local bumpkin bore and hone. Same deal on oil control. As most know a killer converter is huge. So many options but very few deliver the best. Sharing a cam grind is almost doing a disservice as it alone can work against you, if the rest of the combination is off. I know every piece that I used in my 582, but I wonder how copy 2 would run if duplicated.
2005 2000lb 4 link dragster home brew 582 BBC Dart 355 1.058 2.98 4.629@149 6.094 7.310@185
March 31, 2019, 11:22 AM
Strange Magic
quote:
Since two established engine builder/cam companies are wrong, care to share what the correct cam should be?
Sure, but look at my questions and please answer them.
Second, if you don't plan to at least change to the 4:30, then please let me know. Reason is, you'll be wasting your time and pissing in the wind with any changes you make to the engine, with that 4.10 gear and a 34 inch tire with 1000hp or less. If you don't want to change gear, then stuff on a 102 rollout tire.
