When i put the Chassisworks strut frontend on my car i used 3 year old shoulder straps for travel limiters. They have taken a beating over the last 4 years and still look perfect. Belts every 3 years is a money racket. A lot of this is all about money. Yes there are things that need looked at and changed on a car but most don’t need a date. What i see that needs to change is the rule on locking the front wheels up finish line driving and start DQing them and no warnings. That is the most dangerous thing in bracket racing today. 30,000/60,000 car and to cheep or to damn stupid to put a proportioning valve on a car so they can adjust front to rear braking.

I had a round track car 10 years ago or so. The cert on the seat belts are 3 years for nascar, At least it was then anyway.

My cousin broke the center out of a right front and hit the turn 4 wall at about a 60 degree angle(I was entering turn 3 when he wrecked). Same track has a drag strip and circle track…they’ll cut the belts (I’ve heard) if a drag car wrecks, round track you’re good to use them in your next heap.

Makes sense? Absolutely not. I get different sanctioning bodies, but one would think nascar would be more restrictive due to the obvious higher likelihood of smacking the wall.

quote:

Originally posted by Goob:

quote:

Originally posted by Woody B:
How many problems have any of you had due to someone else's expired chassis sticker?

How many problems have any of you had due to someone else not wearing the right jacket of gloves?

How many problems have any of you had due to someone else have expired belts?

Things like worn suspension parts, loose bolts ect pretty much never got checked in tech.

I always kept my stuff current so I could race....anywhere. Once I had new belts, but didn't bolt them in just to see if I could pass tech. I made it through tech at a NHRA National Event with my belts just laced through my seat. Not bolted in.


Some people like John (who started this tread) are truly concerned about other peoples safety. Others just want to complain because they're afraid someone will beat them in a car with an expired sticker, or expired belts.

All of those things can and do affect ALL of us.
When there is an incident that results in injuries or death, it has the potential to put an end to ALL of our opportunities to race.
Big picture view.

Big picture my big ol butt. Name one SPECIFIC example where the things I mention have directly affected you. You can talk about potential all day long. In the end you have the potential to get struck by lightening every time you walk outside.

quote:

^^ What? How do you or why would you compare an everyday driver to a race car? You can’t! The safety regs are in place to protect you and others.

So called "safety regs" are malleable, they are subject to change at any time. If the reg is changed, all else being the same, then it was insufficient prior, right? Safety is safety and requirements are established to be sufficient if it's a passenger car or race car. There are 30+ year old cars on the road that have set out in the sun everyday of their lives. If people were getting killed due to ultra violet rays deterioration of seat belt material, like headlight lens, then action would have been taken a long time ago. I suspect such laws would have to be covered by the mfg. and that's not going to happen on a 25 yo vehicle. Point being, if seat belt material deterioration is NOT a factor in passenger cars then how can it be in a race car that spends 85% of it's life in a trailer or garage? Like others have said, it's a money churning "reg".

Their not going triple the speed limit! Apples and oranges.. Nothing on a production car compares to a race car. Not even sun light. I’m not afraid of the car or driver in the other lane however…. If the association says you need this to race then that’s what we do.
I support a tech person.

I would be ashamed of myself if I designed a seat belt that would only last 2 years. In fact I would fire myself if I did a job that poorly. Most people would get fired at their job if they did this poor of a job. A belt that is actually in use maybe 60 hours in a two year period. Who ever stated it must be a money grab I think is spot on.

In 46 years of racing , I have not been affected by another's car.

Seat belts and chassis certs – Scam! Do those inspections need to occur? Absolutely, on the current interval? Absolutely NOT.

Actually you could use some of the argument using passenger cars when speaking seat belts. Think about this, and it most likely occurs every day somewhere in just the US; Talking seat belts, not roll cages, air bags or any other impact/safety device - would you rather be in a head on collision at high way speed with another vehicle (small or large) wearing only an “aged” OEM lap and shoulder belt? or in a race car with an expired harness? There are not too many scenarios where a drag racing crash would be any more violent than a head on collision. Generally there are not many/any survivors in a head on crash, but have you ever heard of those belts failing as the cause of fatality or even injury?....Ill answer that for you – NO.

Chassis Cert….seriously needed to police the compliance of SFI requirements…..but every three years? Absolutely not, pure money grab. For what we pay, and the amount of time and effort required to certify one, why not place a certification sticker on each tube in the inspectable areas? I feel what we pay should cover the cost to place a sticker on the 12 to 20 individual tubes or whatever it may end up being. Pretty simple to see if it is in compliance or has been modified since certification and the date performed on the sticker would validate any rule changes since.

Last summer I did an update on a car from Div I that had a 25.1 SFI sticker….still good but nearing expiration….it failed in Div III because of a 15 year old foot box rule, not a huge fix, but the point being….

Right now; doing a refurbishment to an older build car that has had sticker after sticker over the years and it has .090 thick seat belt tabs drilled for 3/8” bolt holes….shouldn’t that have been identified at some point over time? I could spend much more time tossing examples out there, point being some regulations need revisited to help control costs and make it more appealing to those looking in from the outside...especially if you want future participant growth…or even sustainability …..make no mistake - I support SAFETY as much or more than anyone…..but!

It would be interesting to find out why we have a two/three year belt /chassis cert.? The only crash I remember belt related was Lee.
Agree on the chassis certs Jerry. I’ve seen some questionable things.
Met and spoke with Lonnie Grim in Pomona. Found him very receptive and informative. Hope he does well for us.

Another thing about chassis Certification. It is based on 1/4 mile racing. A 6.0 Cert door car will not run as much mph in the 1/8 mile as a 7.50 cert car will in the 1/4 mile.

I've been wondering for years why certain things are required at 10.99 or 135 mph, but that same car running at only 1/8 mile tracks might go 105-110 mph at best is still required to have the same certifications.

I've seen many guys at "heavy tech tracks" just stay at the 6.40 limit or use throttle stops to keep the ET below the limit.

quote:

Originally posted by stk 758 BP!:
...................The only crash I remember belt related was Lee.................

Has anyone ever heard exactly what happened with Lee's belts? I suspect he didn't have them on. (Don't bash me, keep reading) After Lee's death I realized that releasing my belts was one of the first things I done after crossing the finish line. In my mind the run was over. I'd cross the finish line, lift, click it in neutral, and release my belts. I've talked to other people who were doing the same thing, without even thinking about it. After Lee's death I started forcing myself to leave them on until I turned off at the end of the track.


Of course if some jerk had complained about my belts not being tight, and the starter made me tighten them I'd release them by the time I was at the 60' clock.

quote:

Originally posted by Woody B:

quote:

Originally posted by stk 758 BP!:
...................The only crash I remember belt related was Lee.................

Has anyone ever heard exactly what happened with Lee's belts? I suspect he didn't have them on. (Don't bash me, keep reading) After Lee's death I realized that releasing my belts was one of the first things I done after crossing the finish line. In my mind the run was over. I'd cross the finish line, lift, click it in neutral, and release my belts. I've talked to other people who were doing the same thing, without even thinking about it. After Lee's death I started forcing myself to leave them on until I turned off at the end of the track.


Of course if some jerk had complained about my belts not being tight, and the starter made me tighten them I'd release them by the time I was at the 60' clock.

There was a thread on YB about this and Lee’s wife posted what exactly happened. I’ll see if I can find it. He had his belts on and tight by the way. The 2 inch belt broke. Thus rule change to 3 inch.

One of the coolest guys I ever met. Sad deal. Same for Buddy and David.

I found this on classracer. It’s Lee’s wife’s post from YB
Hey, y'all. Reading all the comments about Lee's death makes me realize that rumors, reliable sources or not, are just not always true. He was doing 60-foot clockings that day, but he was world champ and had previously been in an end-over-end crash in Englishtown, NY, so he would have much more concern about safety than most others. He had his seatbelts on, and tight, and his helmet was on as was his fire jacket. Stories abounded about all those not being done, but they were. Alston installed the seatbelts which were made from sub-standard materials and broke under the force of the crash. His helmet was badly cracked on his way out of the car and there were fibers from his Simpson jacket embedded in the paint on the roll bar, he hit so hard. There was nothing he could do to get the car back under control on his way down the track with the crosswind, so he pulled the chute and the car turned instantly to the right and began to flip end over end, ejecting him early in the crash. He was killed instantly, leaving a huge hole in not only the racing world, but also in the world of those who loved and cherished him in his personal life! I know all this because I am his widow and wanted to let anyone who is interested know the truth. Thank you all for the kind words....

I agree the seat belt deal is a scam. I do think the chassis should be Certified but the deal on that is they do not inspect a-arms, driveshaft, diapers, etc they are only certifying the drivers compartment.

I think a Diaper is one of most important safety features there is. And they are pretty cheap so No excuse not to have one now. If I owned and ran a track that is the one thing I would be very strict on. If you have slicks on the car it will have a diaper on it before it goes down the track.

Many crashes could have been avoided all together if they had a diaper. And a few lives would have been saved to by that simple low cost device.

In San Antonio several years ago there was a car running around 125 MPH and he lost the motor. The water and oil got under the tires and he crashed and did not survive the injuries. Even if he was not wearing a Seatbelt and Helmet he would still be here today if he had a Diaper on the car as he would not have crashed at all.

One other thing about diapers is when someone loses a motor the cleanup is often just a few minutes instead of hours. Minor deal compared to saving someones life.

No matter if there is Tech or if there is not YOU are main one responsible for your safety so be careful and be smart out there.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Scarth:
Believe me "No Tech" will bite NHRA and or the track that does not tech a race car in the Butt. If there is a catastrophic injury to a racer because of a mechanical failure to a race car that could have been found by teching said racecar. In court the judge will ask a simpl question; "why was there tech inspection before and not now?"

It’s happened already as a result of a death at atco over 10 years ago and IIRC, Joe Sway the then owner was found guilty, liable for allowing this racer to race.

www.Casemine.com/judgement/us/...ade5add7b04934744d2d



That said, the rules/requirements as set forth by the NHRA RULEBOOK are not subjective and non negotiable. You either play by the rules or risk not only getting caught, DQ’d, suspended and/or fined but you risk damage to your car, your competitors and possibly serious injury or death. You can be sure if I know you or your car is illegal, I will be informing the NHRA and track management.

I’m all about safety and you can’t put a price on it! If you don’t like the rules, can’t afford to play by the rules, tough shyt, you don’t get to pick and chose which rules you will comply with!!

quote:

Originally posted by Curly1:
I agree the seat belt deal is a scam. I do think the chassis should be Certified but the deal on that is they do not inspect a-arms, driveshaft, diapers, etc they are only certifying the drivers compartment.

I think a Diaper is one of most important safety features there is. And they are pretty cheap so No excuse not to have one now. If I owned and ran a track that is the one thing I would be very strict on. If you have slicks on the car it will have a diaper on it before it goes down the track.

Many crashes could have been avoided all together if they had a diaper. And a few lives would have been saved to by that simple low cost device.

In San Antonio several years ago there was a car running around 125 MPH and he lost the motor. The water and oil got under the tires and he crashed and did not survive the injuries. Even if he was not wearing a Seatbelt and Helmet he would still be here today if he had a Diaper on the car as he would not have crashed at all.

One other thing about diapers is when someone loses a motor the cleanup is often just a few minutes instead of hours. Minor deal compared to saving someones life.

No matter if there is Tech or if there is not YOU are main one responsible for your safety so be careful and be smart out there.

You're right. They definitely suck to work around but I'm putting one on mine this winter

My opinion, there should be a requirement that all cars running 11.99 or quicker have a diaper. 2 years ago in Woodburn, Oregon I made a pass in SS. At 8,600 rpm the engine let go and put a rod thru the oil pan. Lost 90% of the oil in the pan and the track spent 45 minutes cleaning it up. I have since put a new motor in and although "not required" put a diaper on.

A perfect example is the SCSN race just held in Vegas. They had no oil containment rules. They weren't able to complete the race because of all the oil downs. Luckily there were no serious crashes. The 0 weight pure synthetic oil is hard to clean up.

quote:

Originally posted by Canted Valve:

quote:

Exceptions would maybe be seat belts and other nylon devices, but I would extend them out to maybe 5 years.
The sun does in fact deteriorate the strength of nylon.. Yeah, yeah I agree our junk for the most part doesn't sit in the sun 100% of the time..

David, How do you square this when the regulation happy bureaucrats have no such requirement on millions of automobiles involving hundreds of thousands of accidents involving seat belts/shoulder belts?

I don't try to square it.
Other than to say it is SFI which is not a government entity, other than unto itself.

Just like laws on the books concerning the way we live. Not much we can do about it if we want to race.


Dave

DC: I have to laugh to myself. We ***** about not having tech and then ***** about what is tech'd..lol

This message has been edited. Last edited by: David Covey,