quote:

Originally posted by David Covey:

quote:

Originally posted by Holytown:
Speaking of that. Shouldn't that same MPH be enforced at 1/8 mile races? Why do you need a chassis certification tag, if you only race 1/8 mile and go say 110? A car that runs 6.39 in the 1/8 might go 100-105 all out, which is shows a discrepancy in their 135 mph 1/4 mile rule

The way I understand it, is if you run 135/150 in the 1/8th you are well past the 6.0 ET.

Dave

He's talking a 140 mph 1/4 mile car, that goes slower than 6.40 like this.

This car would have ended 6.50 index as it is known currently, at Bradenton. Unbeatable on a 370 pro tree staged shallow, with a 6.50 index in play.

If it did ever lose, it would be so rare an occasion, it would be considered a fluke.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Rietow,

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
He's talking a 140 mph 1/4 mile car, that goes slower than 6.40 like this.

NHRA would require a cert because it ran faster than 135 even if it did not meet the ET requirement.
IHRA would not require a cert because it meets neither requirement.

Just FIY, I haven't looked at NHRA's requirements in a long time. I have had nothing to do with them since 1997. But those were the requirements when I was racing S/G.
IHRA has had their same requirements since I started racing with them in 1997, and working for them in 2003.

Dave

DC: I look at it the same way I do the SFI specs. When I do an inspection I have to ask what SFI they are trying to meet. Then I will ask how fast the car is. (ET and MPH) that tells me what to do. Then I tell them what I can cert the car to or not.
If I have a car that weights more than a SFI allows, I can not cert it to the lighter car specs. For example a 25.2 3200 lb max car and they want a 25.1 2800 lb max cert. Just not enough bars or size bars.

quote:

Originally posted by David Covey:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
He's talking a 140 mph 1/4 mile car, that goes slower than 6.40 like this.

NHRA would require a cert because it ran faster than 135 even if it did not meet the ET requirement.
IHRA would not require a cert because it meets neither requirement.

Just FIY, I haven't looked at NHRA's requirements in a long time. I have had nothing to do with them since 1997. But those were the requirements when I was racing S/G.
IHRA has had their same requirements since I started racing with them in 1997, and working for them in 2003.

Dave

Let me try it like this.

He's talking about a car with 140 mph capability 1/4 mile, running 1/8 mile slower than 6.40 like this.

Down south in alligator alley < sarcasm, we run all 1/8. This car has never made a full 1/4 mile pull BUT, it has 140 mph potential, according to 1/8 mile, mph.

This is what he's talking.

Mike,

If he had a 140 mph 1/4 car but only ran 1/8. Then the question of cert would never come up until he ran 1/4 mile.

I can not tell by looking what the performance would be.
The issue as I see it is the track owners are the ones that have to enforce it. They or their people are the ones watching the cars and supposed to be doing tech to ensure compliance of the rules.

To me it's a question of integrity by the racer and the track, just like safety equipment.


Dave

I'll add one thing.

If I owned the 140 mph capable car, it would have a sticker on it. If only to tell tech it was safe. Besides at a lot of tracks when they see the sticker they think an official has looked at the car so everything must be good to go..

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by David Covey:
Mike,

If he had a 140 mph 1/4 car but only ran 1/8. Then the question of cert would never come up until he ran 1/4 mile.

I can not tell by looking what the performance would be.
The issue as I see it is the track owners are the ones that have to enforce it. They or their people are the ones watching the cars and supposed to be doing tech to ensure compliance of the rules.

To me it's a question of integrity by the racer and the track, just like safety equipment.


Dave

I'm just the guy who is explaining to you, what it is Holytown is referring to.

There's no debate between you and I. The rule is 6.39 and faster you need a licence, right?

And 135 you need a chassis cert, right?

Holytown is questioning why you don't need a chassis cert if you have 140 mph power 1/4 mile, going slower than 6.39 1/8 mile.

My guess is because it's the rules.

Trust me I can and could always go a lot faster than I did, or do, but that would come with restrictions, right?

I don't like restrictions, they only complicate matters, and go against the bottom line.

I can't imagine looking at it in a rational way, any other way.

Restrictions - Bad

No restrictions - Good

I don't remember the cut off for a license with NHRA.

IHRA is 6.49 1/8, and 9.99 1/4

As to restrictions. I agree unless it endanger someone else. Otherwise it's your ass do with it as you will..


Dave

For local bracket racing events, it was always silly and a waste of time to tech regulars. They (IHRA) started an “extended tech”, but we still needed to go through a limited tech. Extended tech was an option and not free. Some tracks asked you to sign a waver, but it was not enforced. That’s ok for regulars, but not good for newbies. Division and National race tech was way more stringent with IHRA before the Palm Beach investors destroyed IHRA.
Probably been said, but if anyone thinks a track tech inspection is for your safety, your not thinking it through. It’s definitely part of liability protection

No tech is asking for Law Suits that will name everyone involved. The line of "Ambulance Chasers" began forming when they decided to drop tech.

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by RPROGAS:
No tech is asking for Law Suits that will name everyone involved. The line of "Ambulance Chasers" began forming when they decided to drop tech.

Bob

That line must be really really long because that rule started at the beginning of 2019. And yet nothing has changed racers are still racing and national events are still being run. So this rule hasn't affected anyone at all.

quote:

Originally posted by David Covey:

quote:

Originally posted by Holytown:
Speaking of that. Shouldn't that same MPH be enforced at 1/8 mile races? Why do you need a chassis certification tag, if you only race 1/8 mile and go say 110? A car that runs 6.39 in the 1/8 might go 100-105 all out, which is shows a discrepancy in their 135 mph 1/4 mile rule

The way I understand it, is if you run 135/150 in the 1/8th you are well past the 6.0 ET.

Dave

Rapid deceleration is what kills, terminal MPH should be the only consideration for safety requirements.
Having a competent, consistent inspection process, and enforcement, is a real problem.

There is not really a huge line of competent, experienced inspectors wandering around looking to earn $75 bucks for a 14 hour day of thankless, mundane work.

After retiring from the phone company where safety was drilled into me from day one - I took a job as a track manager. I worked 34 years at the phone job, I lasted all of a month at the track. I didn't want to "beat up" anyone over safety but I also wanted people to apply the safety rules for the sake of everyone involved. I have taken many safety courses over the years including one for IHRA. Management informed me that I needed to back off, look the other way - there were complaints.

I lasted another week. We had a car that had flat-black painted cardboard for a driver's floorboard. Another one with the nicest roll cage you ever laid eyes on made out of PVC tubing with silicone welds. One had a piece of Lauan for a barrier between the driver and fuel/battery in the trunk. I had dragster drivers that could hang their head out of the cage while catching their opponent.

At big events I have seen one item checked - cutoff switch or belts is the usual. A lot of places have nothing at all - you paid your money, you're tech'd.

Goob, Chasracer,

100% correct. I will say that all the guy's I worked with were pretty good at tech. No one is 100% every time..
We had an unwritten policy that if we found something we would write their name on a whiteboard with the issue also on the tech card. Then we would give them a one race warning.
Unless it was a serious issue. (Like the blown pickup with the batteries held in with bungie cords in the back of the bed)
I can tell you when a recurring issue was noticed everyone on our team was aware of it and we looked more closely at everything.

Chasracer,
I had one for a cert that a chassis shop used exhaust pipe for a cage, the guy paid good money to get installed.


Dave

Years ago a racer died in an altered wreck at Milan.
The cage turned out to be muffler tubing.

Was it stickered?

Dave

Years ago at Mason Dixon in MD a guy from WV showed up with a Mustang Conv and they wouldn't let him run because of no roll cage. He came back the next week with a "cage" passed tech and on the first run it did a wheel stand and when it came down the "roll cage" crumbled and folded up. It was made of water pipe some with the threads still on it. Maybe some of you know now I think Pro Mod racer Ronnie Proctor. If you do ask him....LOL

In my opinion the best thing to do would be sign a waver where the track is in no way liable for any injury or death at the event. Have a tech guy or track personnel inform racers of what they're doing (bring back the first round drivers meetings), but ultimately it's the racers choice. Every one of us knows what can happen at the track, and its our personal responsibility to do what we see fit to protect ourselves. The racetrack is one of the last places we can go in the world and experience freedom. Lets keep it that way.

quote:

Originally posted by Holytown:
In my opinion the best thing to do would be sign a waver where the track is in no way liable for any injury or death at the event. Have a tech guy or track personnel inform racers of what they're doing (bring back the first round drivers meetings), but ultimately it's the racers choice. Every one of us knows what can happen at the track, and its our personal responsibility to do what we see fit to protect ourselves. The racetrack is one of the last places we can go in the world and experience freedom. Lets keep it that way.

You can't write a waver that will hold up in court when it comes to serious injury or death - many have tried and a good group of lawyers is going to punch a lot of holes in it.

I like tech check the neutral safety switches. That is one item that you can make sure protects people in a very vulnerable situation, when we are standing and walking in the lanes. I have seen cars start up in gear and almost hit someone before. Shut off switches is another. It helps protect the workers when there is a wreck and they are trying to kill a fuel pump or engine.

It's one thing to try to get someone to protect themselves but at least try to protect people from those who won't do it without being forced to.