Can you post reaction times and 330?

As said, I would expect reaction to go red same amount the 60 foot was slow.

quote:

Originally posted by 183N:

quote:

Originally posted by Curly1:
I do not think popping front tires out of beams has anything to do with car going from 1.08 sixty foot to 1.25 sixty foot. That is a lot of change, I would look for something else.

Sure it could. When the tire stays on the ground and rotates through the beam, the car gets a “head start” as the car drives through the beam before the timer activates. If the tire pops straight up out of the beam, the ET timer starts earlier, before the car gets the rolling “head start.” The reaction time would be quicker by the same amount. So if the 60’ went from 1.08 to 1.25, I would expect the light to be .170 ish red.

Interesting, because the first time this happened, she was .168 red and to me it looked like a good light and the second time, to me she looked late, swears she saw yellow but was .013 red.

Still will for sure be making sure the engine is all good when it goes to bed today or next weekend, but I think it makes sense now.

Because of the starting troubles I had before, I had instaled a second battery for more capacity and took off the weight bar. The car left the same at that time, about the same 2 inches of lift so I never bothered to put the weight bar back on.

So now in thinking, as this track was made on an old airport, it is crowned not flat, so the beam would be lower to the ground in the dead center than it would be where the emitter and receiver are mounted. With her going in super shallow, if the beam is a bit lower where the tires are, and it pops up, using the information from that mystery red light video, it makes sense that she could trigger the clocks early

Definitely will make sure nothing is going south with the engine, but will put the weight bar bac on and adjust so the tires stay on the ground.

quote:

Originally posted by NortonRacing:
Can you post reaction times and 330?

As said, I would expect reaction to go red same amount the 60 foot was slow.

Sadly no 330 times, they have the 330 lights but something was wrong and they were not working so that added a lot of guessing as to what went on.

The first was .165 red, 1.254 60' and 4.987@142.90
The second when I thought she was late, was .013 red 1.215 60" and 4.94@143.00
where earlier she was .043 green 1.082 60' and 4.80@143.38

quote:

Originally posted by TD6297:

Definitely will make sure nothing is going south with the engine, but will put the weight bar bac on and adjust so the tires stay on the ground.

The MPH is good, there's nothin' wrong with the engine. Put some weight in the nose and if it's a 4 link car you can probably adjust it out with the 4 link or shocks.

quote:

Originally posted by TD6297:
Just wondering what everyone here thinks of what might have happened last weekend with our dragster. Ran 1.08 60' 4.83@142.80 1.077 60' 4.80@143.00

Then a 1.25 60' 4.98@142.84 then 1.21 60' 4.948@143.00.

Both the last two runs, the car looked and sounded the same, lifted the front on both, didnt see any hint of spin or trouble, but both passes and oddly fell off .13 and she was quite red on both which is also very inconsistent. Sadly no 330 timers to get split times from which might help some.

The track is an old airport. Could the setup of the lights and crown of the road factor into this? Not sure where to even start looking. So strange those two passes were so consistent but off and the first two were so consistent and quick.

Something is causing the timing system to start before the car has moved! What it is could be anything... May want to try whiting out the front wheels ( shoe polish). I have seen a timing system have "Shine out" issues" and this is what we did to fix it until they figured out the issue. When the car went on the two step, the vibrations of the front wheels caused the issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Goob:
How Red, exactly?

Car backed out (or steering wiggle, etc.) of the beam, starting the clock. I'm guessing about .2xx red? Could be when a SLE triggered?
Only way this happens.

Again, the car rocked backward, or she wiggled the steering, before it went forward. That is the ONLY way what your time slips say happens.

quote:

Originally posted by Goob:

quote:

Originally posted by Goob:
How Red, exactly?

Car backed out (or steering wiggle, etc.) of the beam, starting the clock. I'm guessing about .2xx red? Could be when a SLE triggered?
Only way this happens.

Again, the car rocked backward, or she wiggled the steering, before it went forward. That is the ONLY way what your time slips say happens.

No that is not true! There are other ways related to the timing system operation also! I'd bet that track either is not using it or doesn't have it - Stage Lock. Critters, bugs and spider webs in the beams also can cause issues.

quote:

Originally posted by 183N:

quote:

Originally posted by Curly1:
I do not think popping front tires out of beams has anything to do with car going from 1.08 sixty foot to 1.25 sixty foot. That is a lot of change, I would look for something else.

Sure it could. When the tire stays on the ground and rotates through the beam, the car gets a “head start” as the car drives through the beam before the timer activates. If the tire pops straight up out of the beam, the ET timer starts earlier, before the car gets the rolling “head start.” The reaction time would be quicker by the same amount. So if the 60’ went from 1.08 to 1.25, I would expect the light to be .170 ish red.

On my car when it popped front tires out of beams it would go about .030 red instead of .010 green best I can tell. And it really did not change ET and 60 much. Your mileage may vary.

quote:

Originally posted by TOP38:

quote:

Originally posted by Goob:

quote:

Originally posted by Goob:
How Red, exactly?

Car backed out (or steering wiggle, etc.) of the beam, starting the clock. I'm guessing about .2xx red? Could be when a SLE triggered?
Only way this happens.

Again, the car rocked backward, or she wiggled the steering, before it went forward. That is the ONLY way what your time slips say happens.

No that is not true! There are other ways related to the timing system operation also! I'd bet that track either is not using it or doesn't have it - Stage Lock. Critters, bugs and spider webs in the beams also can cause issues.

Lack of stage lock is obvious.
The car backed out of the beam before going forward. Period.
Examine every incremental split time and I'll bet it was identical to every other run.

Goob, possible car backed out. I do know the front tires popping out of beams will make car go red but from my experience it is about .030 and no where near .168 red and the difference on 60 foot times was minimal. Also 1.08 to a 1.25 is a lot of difference and I do not think it is possible to make that much difference on 60 foot. But it would if the car backed out of beams because that triggers red and starts the clocks.

Someone may be able to prove or disprove it mathematically.

As for strange things with the lights. I have went to stage and lights started flickering and I was not moving. We later found out there was an ant bed right there and it had just got tall enough to start messing with the lights. Also several times we have had thousands of crickets come in and some of them messed with the lights down track. One time we had a frog crawl up there and block staging light so it would not work. Another track had a mouse in there so strange things can happen.

I think most likely car backing out of beams as if you subtract the 60 foot times all of the ET are with in .01 where you have .172 difference in 60 foot so it just may be backing out of beams.

quote:

Originally posted by TD6297:
Just wondering what everyone here thinks of what might have happened last weekend with our dragster. Ran 1.08 60' 4.83@142.80 1.077 60' 4.80@143.00

Then a 1.25 60' 4.98@142.84 then 1.21 60' 4.948@143.00.

Both the last two runs, the car looked and sounded the same, lifted the front on both, didnt see any hint of spin or trouble, but both passes and oddly fell off .13 and she was quite red on both which is also very inconsistent. Sadly no 330 timers to get split times from which might help some.

The track is an old airport. Could the setup of the lights and crown of the road factor into this?

Yes, but....

The math tells me it's about the amount of time as the normal rollout, or possibly about the amount of time for a driver to react and swat the throttle, or twitch the steering wheel.

Sounds like a temporary timing system install also upon review, so anything is possible I guess.

If you run that setup again, ask questions, take notes of the equipment they're using, and ask how they set the rollout.
Then stage the car deeper in the beam and see what happens.

quote:

Originally posted by Goob:

quote:

Originally posted by TD6297:
Just wondering what everyone here thinks of what might have happened last weekend with our dragster. Ran 1.08 60' 4.83@142.80 1.077 60' 4.80@143.00

Then a 1.25 60' 4.98@142.84 then 1.21 60' 4.948@143.00.

Both the last two runs, the car looked and sounded the same, lifted the front on both, didnt see any hint of spin or trouble, but both passes and oddly fell off .13 and she was quite red on both which is also very inconsistent. Sadly no 330 timers to get split times from which might help some.

The track is an old airport. Could the setup of the lights and crown of the road factor into this?

Yes, but....

The math tells me it's about the amount of time as the normal rollout, or possibly about the amount of time for a driver to react and swat the throttle, or twitch the steering wheel.

Sounds like a temporary timing system install also upon review, so anything is possible I guess.

If you run that setup again, ask questions, take notes of the equipment they're using, and ask how they set the rollout.
Then stage the car deeper in the beam and see what happens.

Goob this is exactly what my Yancer car did when it would get cold out ended up loosing the shock up in colder weather and car would not pop the front tires up out of the beams bad red and everything down track was slow you might remember it happened a couple times up at the Hill.

quote:

Originally posted by sittin duck:


Goob this is exactly what my Yancer car did when it would get cold out ended up loosing the shock up in colder weather and car would not pop the front tires up out of the beams bad red and everything down track was slow you might remember it happened a couple times up at the Hill.

But was it .168 Red and almost .2 off in 60 foot? My car was .030 red and very little in 60 foot when mine would pop out of beams if I remember right. Hard to say exactly because I made changes to fix it as quick as I could.

I’ve always had carbon “beauty rings” in my dragster front wheels to prevent something like this

Slip joint car? As tubing arches the chassis essentially has a shorter wheelbase at the time. Causing the front tires to go backwards before they go forward

quote:

Originally posted by Curly1:

quote:

Originally posted by sittin duck:


Goob this is exactly what my Yancer car did when it would get cold out ended up loosing the shock up in colder weather and car would not pop the front tires up out of the beams bad red and everything down track was slow you might remember it happened a couple times up at the Hill.

But was it .168 Red and almost .2 off in 60 foot? My car was .030 red and very little in 60 foot when mine would pop out of beams if I remember right. Hard to say exactly because I made changes to fix it as quick as I could.

Yes real bad red and the rest of the run was slow MPH was the same.

The car is a hard tail which I imagine contributes to it popping the wheels up. And she does stage very carefully and very shallow.

Sadly with only the 60' amd 1/8 times, I cant get a good handle with split times to judge the car's performance. I can only go on what I saw and heard.
But I did do the splits for the 60-660 on the last four and they were 3.75 3.73 3.73 3.73 with the 1/8 mile times of 4.83 4.80 4.92 4.95

Both of those two runs, the car sounded great and looked great which is why I was surprised and thought to ask here. I do believe it is an issue with timing and not mechanical, just from what I saw and heard. At other airport races here, it will low 1.20 60' but it is visible both in how the car reacts, and I can see the hazing of the tires. These two, it was hooked solid and did pop the front which it wont do on a 1.20 60'

I might ask the person who runs the track and see if he will put a string line on the lights to see just where the beam actually is in the center of the track. With the crown of the surface, over that distance, I could see it being noticable lower than at a regular track with a completely flat level surface.

If it was a timing glitch, there is nothing I can do about that, and really we are not serious enough about the racing to complain for a re-run either. But if there is something I can do with the car to help prevent this, then for sure I will.

So I think adding a little weight to the nose to keep the front on the track, and maybe bump in a bit deeper might be what we will do in the future for races there.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TD6297,

Stage deeper for a sure fix.

Put some hash marks on the front tire so she can reference how deep to go with consistency..

Take a 22" disc (or loose dragster front tire/wheel) and check the starting line yourself, you'll learn a LOT.