quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:
If you were an owner, and cost obviously was a factor, as well as profit, what would you do today for bigger bracket racing car counts?

I'll be brutally honest here. If I owned a track nowadays, and my family's lifestyle depended on it making a profit, I wouldn't even try to cater to bracket racers. I might allow a promoter to come in, once in awhile, to run their own big buck bracket events, but those promoters would have to pay me a flat fee up front.

I hope that combining bracket races with heads up races might keep things going and maybe even growing, but I just don't know. Take care. Tom Worthington

I agree Tom, the bracket racing side of the business is crap for track owners. IF I owned a track,the buy back is income to the track and would be in place weekly.

Side note, as some have stated,Norwalk does not have BB on weekly programs.

They (Norwalk) had buy backs all last weekend at the 40k nationals that they promoted. At big money races, buy backs are still very much the norm.

One of NHRA class racing's few redeeming qualities is there are still no buy backs and never will be. We offset the cost with higher entry fees, but damn it feels good to not turn a 50 car race into a 7 or 8 round race.

10 round races are the norm these days when car counts are up.

Believe me, it feels just as good to hold the BIG check in the air after winning 10 rounds in one day vs racing 1 or 2 rounds a day for 4 days. Done it both ways, boils down to preferred style of racing mostly.

Nhra racing will have 6 or 8 laps a weekend and Big money racing will have 6 or 8 laps in the 1st 3 or 4 rounds of racing that day if your winning rounds.

Choices right?

quote:

Originally posted by Nim Rod:
One of NHRA class racing's few redeeming qualities is there are still no buy backs and never will be. We offset the cost with higher entry fees, but damn it feels good to not turn a 50 car race into a 7 or 8 round race.

And never will be no money to win either…

quote:

Originally posted by WHOMPWHOMP:

quote:

Originally posted by Nim Rod:
One of NHRA class racing's few redeeming qualities is there are still no buy backs and never will be. We offset the cost with higher entry fees, but damn it feels good to not turn a 50 car race into a 7 or 8 round race.

And never will be no money to win either…

Oh I'm sorry, are you doing this for a living? My bad, didn't know you were a professional lol. Personally, I work for a living and I like to chase some racing that has a little more notoriety. Doesn't pay spectacular, but it's way more challenging and demands more dedication. I also bracket and index race a ton too, but I work around the NHRA stuff, it typically takes precedent for me.

1st round is nothing but a time run with buybacks. Do away with buybacks, charge $10 more at the gate, and give drivers an additional time run.

One time run and then on to eliminations is a deterrent to new racers, IMHO.

No time runs are the same as running with a buy back.

No I don't do this for a living and I do have a means of income. I do like racing for a real amount of money...NHRA simply has nothing to offer in the $ department. Doesn't mean it can't be fun...if you like racing all weekend for 1200 bux and having fun...worth every penny.

quote:

Originally posted by TORQIN:
No time runs are the same as running with a buy back.

No I don't do this for a living and I do have a means of income. I do like racing for a real amount of money...NHRA simply has nothing to offer in the $ department. Doesn't mean it can't be fun...if you like racing all weekend for 1200 bux and having fun...worth every penny.

Didn't quote you but ok. And with sticker money, you can clear well over 2-3Gs from a divisional, even more for a national. You ever won one of these "BBBRs"?

I've gone to a "big money" race and it was easily the most miserable experience of my drag racing career, and I've fragged a few engines over the years. I arrive the night before. I don't know how many entries there were but between all the doubles I'd say there was 350-400ish. I don't have double money laying around and I just wanted to see what it was all about. I made a new entry time run that morning and raced first round about 2 hours later, no big deal. then I waited. and waited. and waited some more. then around 6 hours later, I ran second round. then I waited. and waited, and waited some more. then about 4 hours after that I lost third round. I pulled the next day's entry and went home. I can't do all the down time man, especially when I race alone most of the time. Toqin, even with two entries rolling that's too much fukking sitting around. I like to bracket race and run index classes on top of that, keeps me busy all day. NHRA stuff are mostly doubles now so I can get a full weekend doing that now too. tbf It's a lot of sitting too, but at least there's a few more classes that are spectate-able, and not the same two dragsters 200 times in a row.

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:
I'd say Norwalk is certainly the exception to what is happening at tracks across the country. My question is.....why? Is the local population pretty large there? Is there a lack of tracks to compete with them locally? Is there something about their programs that really bring racers from far and wide?

Our local track is with new ownership now and is doing much much better than in previous years. I think we really have all the local racers that aren't traveling to big bucks and who have their cars out regularly. But the numbers are still weak, and not what they were 20 or 30 years ago. Many reasons for that obviously. But is there a secret sauce that will encourage people to drive past another track to come to yours?

Hard work all around is what makes Norwalk the exception. The Bader family has built long time partnerships with big companies that have provided phenomenal opportunities to the points racers. The runoffs, the purse for points payouts and other benefits/discounts that come when signing up for points. The points series doesn't marry you to the facility either. In comparison there is a newer facility in Dragway 42 that is 30 minutes away. Both facilities draw an exceptional car count. You also have Quaker City and National Trails Raceway both about 2 hours away that are both very decent facilities. Racers in this area have options. Some like the payouts as each of the tracks fees/payouts are different. Some like smaller car counts to be done racing sooner. There is a track that fits just about everyone's needs in the area and they all operate within their means.

Thread has gone to talking about 3 different types of races. Big difference between class racing, big money bracket racing, and a weekly bracket race series.
Regular weekly bracket races at a sanctioned facility also usually include a points program.

I race at Norwalk pretty regularly throughout the year. At points races and their very popular halloween race there is no buybacks. Also you can only double if you have another car (cant double same car twice and 2 drivers cant run the same car). That being said things like the on-site tire shop, on-site parts store, motorhome power hookups, etc. make it a pretty popular track and have regulars come from as far as Michigan for points races but its format is quite different from many of the other tracks ive raced at

quote:

Originally posted by Shawn Pinkerton:
Hard work all around is what makes Norwalk the exception. The Bader family has built long time partnerships with big companies that have provided phenomenal opportunities to the points racers. The runoffs, the purse for points payouts and other benefits/discounts that come when signing up for points. The points series doesn't marry you to the facility either. In comparison there is a newer facility in Dragway 42 that is 30 minutes away. Both facilities draw an exceptional car count. You also have Quaker City and National Trails Raceway both about 2 hours away that are both very decent facilities. Racers in this area have options. Some like the payouts as each of the tracks fees/payouts are different. Some like smaller car counts to be done racing sooner. There is a track that fits just about everyone's needs in the area and they all operate within their means.

Wish we had all that in my area.

I'm from Arizona and made it to Norwalk with my Mustang on street tires and had a great time going 3 rounds against the locals in Sportsman class.
I also went to Dragway 42 on Sunday and had a nice ride and a round one win.
Doesn't seem like much to you big time racers but I really enjoyed the racing and that's why I went.
So, anyone who has their race car sitting because it's 1/8 mile or because it's 1/4 mile or because you like or don't like buybacks maybe you need to just go and run a street car and have some fun again.
I work at the national event races and race if I can in between, and do it for fun.

I have no regrets.
For those who run national events, I have the yellow 63 Falcon or the orange 2019 Mustang gt

quote:

Originally posted by Nim Rod:
I've gone to a "big money" race and it was easily the most miserable experience of my drag racing career,

My experience was similar, While I did good IIRC got down to 10 or 12 cars but it was almost 24 hours straight of racing in Texas heat. The sun was up by the time I got loaded and out of there.

Is simply was not any fun.

quote:

Originally posted by Curly1:

quote:

Originally posted by Nim Rod:
I've gone to a "big money" race and it was easily the most miserable experience of my drag racing career,

My experience was similar, While I did good IIRC got down to 10 or 12 cars but it was almost 24 hours straight of racing in Texas heat. The sun was up by the time I got loaded and out of there.

Is simply was not any fun.

Honestly, that's one of the things I don't like about BBBR's. They seem to go on forever. Not only do you need to manage your sleep where you can at them. But you need to make sure you are safe to travel to get home as a rule. Just like national even races.....I don't have that kind of time to dedicate before retirement.

I will race whats available. No buybacks, buybacks, re entry round, whatever. I have an RV to relax in.

Local programs need buybacks to help cover expenses. Summer months are pretty hot so is easy for people to stay home.

When was a kid, class racing dragbike it was only during summer in NE and never a shortage of cars. These days is more hit or miss how many cars.

quote:

Originally posted by muggs:
I will race whats available. No buybacks, buybacks, re entry round, whatever. I have an RV to relax in.

Local programs need buybacks to help cover expenses. Summer months are pretty hot so is easy for people to stay home.

Yes Sir, that is why I have bought a larger living quarters trailer and remodeling it so I can stay at track longer and in comfort. As for Buy-Backs or not it is very low on my list of priorities where I choose to race. Things like how close, how well it is ran, concrete walls or Armaco rails etc.

I do not enjoy the Big Money races so I do not do them. After I get my living quarters trailer finished I may consider other races. It has to be fun though, when the racing gets miserable I just do not see doing it.