quote:

Originally posted by Eman:
Footbrake, the great equalizer.

Yeah, nobody has ever been accused of cheating in Footbrake.

quote:

Originally posted by 69427:
I would say it would be remotely operated by a crewman/spectator that could focuses/aim it at the appropriate tree bulb and then it would trigger a receiver hidden in the car.

Just my 2 cents.

And yes, the technology already exists.

That technology is there to but it suffers similar problems. Hiding it (1)and reacting off the one and only flash they want it to (2) plus the additional problem of adding another component in the mix to possibly mess up. (3)

Good racers can kill the tree and no need to cheat.

It would have to be 1. Faster. 2. More reliable. 3. Worth the risk of getting caught. Do not see a need for it now. I know some good racers are putting down some great passes and they do not cheat.
If you are cheating I would not want anyone else to know or be involved. More people involved easier to get caught. Just not worth it.

I guess any cheating they are thinking Risk vs Reward but it is just not worth it to me.

We have to keep an eye out and watch for them but do not lose any sleep over it.

Should maybe be as concerned over the FuelTech upgrade. Now includes auto-tune for changing weather, delay box included, traction control / slew rate is manageable (under different names).
My new view on this; if you run the "electronics (Box) class, there are no rules as to electronics, that ends any cheating.
In No Box they may have to look at No Grid or fuel systems like the new Fuel Tech. How do you allow that is No Box when it can have a delay box in it?
Getting pretty strange out there but with $100,000.00 plus to win events becoming more common, and no tech inspections exist, it opens the door for "ideas", right?

There has been talk about this since I started using Ike's first delay boxes in the 80's. So far, racers seem to be pretty honest, you don't hear much about any infractions. The best tech is probably the other racers.

Nobody knew about the matty box for years and the dirty dozen racked up tons of wins with those things in use. At least that's how the story goes....

quote:

Originally posted by Toad1:
Should maybe be as concerned over the FuelTech upgrade. Now includes auto-tune for changing weather, delay box included, traction control / slew rate is manageable (under different names).
My new view on this; if you run the "electronics (Box) class, there are no rules as to electronics, that ends any cheating.
In No Box they may have to look at No Grid or fuel systems like the new Fuel Tech. How do you allow that is No Box when it can have a delay box in it?
Getting pretty strange out there but with $100,000.00 plus to win events becoming more common, and no tech inspections exist, it opens the door for "ideas", right?

There has been talk about this since I started using Ike's first delay boxes in the 80's. So far, racers seem to be pretty honest, you don't hear much about any infractions. The best tech is probably the other racers.

I ran Super Gas at the Brainerd national event in a FuelTech-equipped car with the delay box and throttle stop timer integrated into the dash unit. Pretty sweet setup, really.

The owner runs a lot of No-Box with the car, and is usually doubled in Box as well. When he does this, he actually goes off the bottom in both classes because he disables the delay box within the FuelTech and it takes too long to disable/re-enable it between classes.

I bet if he could do it over again, he'd keep the timers disabled within the FuelTech and use a standalone delay box that could easily be taken in and out.

The car still uses a carburetor so doesn't have any of the tuning stuff available. But it's a pretty slick solution that replaces the MSD, Racepak, and delay box systems found in your typical top-bulb or Super-class car.

quote:

Originally posted by Triple Nickel:
Nobody knew about the matty box for years and the dirty dozen racked up tons of wins with those things in use. At least that's how the story goes....

Hypothetical question. If you had a choice between Grid ignition, traction control, data loggers etc that is available now OR you could use a Matty Box what would you do? (Assuming it was legal)

quote:

Originally posted by Curly1:

quote:

Originally posted by Triple Nickel:
Nobody knew about the matty box for years and the dirty dozen racked up tons of wins with those things in use. At least that's how the story goes....

Hypothetical question. If you had a choice between Grid ignition, traction control, data loggers etc that is available now OR you could use a Matty Box what would you do? (Assuming it was legal)

Obviously you don’t know how good a GRID is…

quote:

Originally posted by WHOMPWHOMP:

quote:

Originally posted by Curly1:

quote:

Originally posted by Triple Nickel:
Nobody knew about the matty box for years and the dirty dozen racked up tons of wins with those things in use. At least that's how the story goes....

Hypothetical question. If you had a choice between Grid ignition, traction control, data loggers etc that is available now OR you could use a Matty Box what would you do? (Assuming it was legal)

Obviously you don’t know how good a GRID is…

Actually that was whole point of the question to make a point that the Matty box even if legal is probably obsolete because of Grid and current technology that actually is legal.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike English:
Chrondek has a jammer built into their system

The same Chrondek that has been out of the timing system business for 25+ years?

Haven't seen one of those systems in use since about 2002, maybe 2005?

quote:

Originally posted by Triple Nickel:
Nobody knew about the matty box for years and the dirty dozen racked up tons of wins with those things in use. At least that's how the story goes....

Yeah, back when a car that could run within .02 back to back was a near automatic win.

The resolution was iffy at .01 on that system, and all it did was give the driver an indication of being on target or not.

Fueltech was brought up in a couple of posts. I looked up their FT600 ECU, it's flat out amazing the things you can do with that system! I only glanced at the drag racing features, pages 120-133.

Page 129, para. 20.11 Davis Technologies should raise a red flag.

The delay box is okay if you are running S/Pro or a Box class. What happens when you race Pro or No Box; technically the delay box is supposed to be removed.

https://files.fueltech.net/man..._FT550LITE_FT600.pdf

2BKING

There seems to be no doubt that technology has surpassed the point where everyone should be concerned. When the Fuel Tech instruction guide has instructions on how their system can be connected to the Davis System it opens up a whole new can of worms. It seems that NHRA's position on Tech Inspections clears the way for "Anything Goes" so why not just allow "Anything". Policing these systems is pointless, there is a never ending array of technology advances with products that can't be controlled.

Either allow everything or nothing. When a class specifies nothing is legal that absolutely means nothing, zero, zilch. Get caught and get banned for life. No "Do Overs" no mulligans, no free passes just gone!

Without mentioning names or places there was, (and may still be), a car that competes with a lap top on the front seat, this car has been virtually un-beatable. That is until he goes to a NHRA Summit Finals, then he's an average competitor who seldom goes very far in eliminations. The key difference is WHERE he's competing, WHO is handling Tech and WHAT are the consequences of getting caught.

Did I forget mention that he writes code?

Bob

Goob, sorry, I meant Compulink. Old age sets in

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike English,

quote:

Originally posted by B KING:
The delay box is okay if you are running S/Pro or a Box class. What happens when you race Pro or No Box; technically the delay box is supposed to be removed.

https://files.fueltech.net/man..._FT550LITE_FT600.pdf

2BKING

The delay box features can be logically removed from the unit, and it isn’t something that can be done on the return road using the touchscreen.

As I stated earlier, it takes so long to enable/disable it that my friend just runs everything off the bottom bulb to stay legal.

How would anyone know if disabled or enabled?

Clearly a driver reaction off the top bulb would be obvious but what about something like switch on throttle pedal(WOT) at first flash to activate delay feature or who knows what else.

I race Pro & No Box; I know what's legal & a delay box isn't legal. We had a few that had them in the race vehicle & they eventually got caught. I don't know what happen to them & don't care. If it's in the race vehicle the temptation or perception of using it is there.

You don't have to use a delay box on the top bulb for it to be an advantage. If it was legal to use on the bottom bulb, I would be using one!

2BKING

My reply was in reference to a car using a Fueltech system in no box with a delay box built in.

How can one tell if delay box function in the Fueltech is being used?
Or are you saying that Fueltech shouldn't be allowed at all because of the capability in no box?
It does seem sketchy using Fueltech in no box even if being disabled.

I have carbs, MFI stuff, mechanical gauges and MSD 6/7 boxes. They have worked for years. No desire to change.

I think we are on the same page on this subject.

quote:

Originally posted by M120:
My reply was in reference to a car using a Fueltech system in no box with a delay box built in.

How can one tell if delay box function in the Fueltech is being used?
Or are you saying that Fueltech shouldn't be allowed at all because of the capability in no box?
It does seem sketchy using Fueltech in no box even if being disabled.

I have carbs, MFI stuff, mechanical gauges and MSD 6/7 boxes. They have worked for years. No desire to change.

I think we are on the same page on this subject.

The worlds most affordable brand of EFI, Megasquirt, has the delay box feature in their top models. We run a touch screen dash connected to the efi, so it would be feasible to use it in the car. But I already have the best delay box in the car. It has relays in it which make life easier wiring wise, and I don't have to take my gloves off to use it. Technically it is illegal for me even in box to use that feature which is silly.

But, the most practical way to police the classes that cannot use delay boxes just like the most practical way to police the use of trans brakes in classes that don't allow them, is to watch from the tower or starting line what is going on in the car. No it wouldn't prevent using it on the bottom bulb but most wouldn't see that as a large advantage worth cheating for anyhow. I really don't think it would need to be policed for constantly. Just pay attention and if you stumble upon something odd, investigate. If you find something, lifetime ban. People will think twice about f'ing around if they really don't want to find out.

quote:

No it wouldn't prevent using it on the bottom bulb but most wouldn't see that as a large advantage worth cheating for anyhow.

What?

Think about it.....a stock style chassis car that runs mid 6's and carries 1.025 to 1.040 delay off the top bulb wouldn't benefit from a .030 - .050 delay off the bottom??????

You'd never see it.

When delay boxes were illegal, some folks used a variety of transbrake valves to tune their reaction times.

I'm all for no rules regarding the vehicle for top bulb racing, everyone has a car that will run dead on.

Or, we can just make it all no rules, quit prepping the track other than keeping it clean, and the only electrical devices on the vehicle would be the tail light, starter, and battery powered breaker point ignition system.
Instant Green tree that starts the clock on Green, not when your car leaves.
Now dial that, biotches!

Let's race!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Goob:

quote:

No it wouldn't prevent using it on the bottom bulb but most wouldn't see that as a large advantage worth cheating for anyhow.

What?

Think about it.....a stock style chassis car that runs mid 6's and carries 1.025 to 1.040 delay off the top bulb wouldn't benefit from a .030 - .050 delay off the bottom??????

You'd never see it.

I know I could use it & I'm sure the dragsters could really use it to prevent red lighting!

2BKING