quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:
I'm old enough to remember when MADE IN JAPAN meant stuff was crap. Now their stuff is better than ours. Kia and Hyundai (South Korea) make very good cars. And I've bought plenty of stuff made right here in the USA that turned out to be total crap.

WHERE stuff is made is not relevant. HOW stuff is made is important. Manufacturing jobs are generally not great jobs (sorry, they just aren't) and as long as our government is handing out free money, you'll be hard pressed to find companies looking to move manufacturing to the USA, because no one wants to work - that is unless our government pays them subsidies to move jobs here, which is another colossal scam that rips off taxpayers.

Why do you say manufacturing jobs aren't great jobs? Specifically.

quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:

Why do you say manufacturing jobs aren't great jobs? Specifically.

You think working out on the floor in a textile mill is a great job? Or working in a steel mill? Doing repetitive work on an assembly line? No thanks. Those are all honorable professions, I admire anyone who works, but those are no longer jobs people grow up dreaming of. A good job to me is a job as a skilled tradesman, intellectual type work that requires education, or entrepreneurial/own-your-own business type work. Our society and economy has moved past making a living with a strong back.

I worked for an Italian manufacturer / distributor for 8+ years. We imported million of dollars in goods each year. Some parts for manufacturing came from New Zealand, a lot from China (led lights anchors and chain), the rest was made and assembled in house in Italy.

90% of our customers were boat manufacturers.

We tried to move assembly and some manufacturing here to the US but failed miserably. They can make the product oversees for pennies on the dollar.

When Trump imposed his tariffs (which I agreed with) we could not increase our pricing as we had contracts in place with our customers.

Our director and the management oversees did not agree with the tariffs imposed but I couldn't be happier with the outcome at the time. We were forced to purchase goods "Made in the USA" which was the point of the tariffs.

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:

quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:

Why do you say manufacturing jobs aren't great jobs? Specifically.

You think working out on the floor in a textile mill is a great job? Or working in a steel mill? Doing repetitive work on an assembly line? No thanks. Those are all honorable professions, I admire anyone who works, but those are no longer jobs people grow up dreaming of. A good job to me is a job as a skilled tradesman, intellectual type work that requires education, or entrepreneurial/own-your-own business type work. Our society and economy has moved past making a living with a strong back.

Because there are different levels of manufacturing jobs is why I asked. I never said what was or wasn't a great job but you ran with what you assumed I meant. I was just asking for a clarification which you gave and I don't disagree with what you are saying on the lower level jobs, thanks.

I run a manufacturing facility for an OEM business making oil testing, measuring and sampling equipment so that is why I asked.

quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:

I run a manufacturing facility for an OEM business making oil testing, measuring and sampling equipment so that is why I asked.

When people complain about manufacturing jobs being off-shored, they aren't talking about operations like your business - they're talking about textile sweat shops, steel mills, and assembly line work, and other similar scenarios.

Have any of you read how PRC are setting up huge manufacturing facilities in Mexico? They don’t like how the supply chain transportation failures hurt USA sales during the Pandemic and spending Billions to make China stuff in Mexico with mostly Mexican labor. Be ready for China stuff that says it’s made in Mexico.
Do some research on the web and you’ll read how big this is.

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:

quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:

Why do you say manufacturing jobs aren't great jobs? Specifically.

You think working out on the floor in a textile mill is a great job? Or working in a steel mill? Doing repetitive work on an assembly line? No thanks. Those are all honorable professions, I admire anyone who works, but those are no longer jobs people grow up dreaming of. A good job to me is a job as a skilled tradesman, intellectual type work that requires education, or entrepreneurial/own-your-own business type work. Our society and economy has moved past making a living with a strong back.

Yes. We had a steel mill in the town where I grew up. Those union jobs put a lot of families in nice houses and with nice toys. Dirty work? Yep. They ARE called JOBS. Since when does this country owe everyone their dream jobs? Bluntly speaking, non skilled manufacturing jobs are as much as a good many people will ever be equipped for. Not to mention the skilled and leadership jobs in manufacturing. Tell me this....which are better? Service jobs flipping burgers and working retail, or good paying manufacturing jobs?

quote:

Tell me this....which are better? Service jobs flipping burgers and working retail, or good paying manufacturing jobs?

Absolutely. Good paying manufacturing jobs was the backbone of the middle class. Joe Factory with pickup truck, towing his boat and family to the lake for the weekend is far better for the economy than Susie Nobrains working at Walmart and drawing food stamps.

I have always believed "all" jobs are intertwined, which leads to our great country's benefits. The "rich" invest in businesses that employ all levels of people. From there, we have managers, then employees who make or service products. I've never taken lightly what each person contributes to our society. (in fact when I quit racing) I told my wife I was putting some other good souls out of a job. Nevertheless, our country has changed, we stopped encouraging people to seek out a trade, our standard of living increased so much we lost line workers. Was this due to easy credit. People began to "finance" almost everything they own. Homes and cars, most of which were bought beyond their means to impress the Jones.This took parents out of the homes and destroyed most quality time spent as a family. I'll stop here, but as you reflect on your lives, you'll see we brought this on ourselves. That's okay, we can always as my parents would say" learn to live within our means".

quote:

Originally posted by Canted Valve:
Susie Nobrains working at Walmart and drawing food stamps.

Nice attitude. As I said in my previous post, all work is honorable, and Susie has a better chance of working hard and working her way up the management ladder at WalMart than anybody working in a textile mill or steel mill. Every job is an opportunity - it's all about making the most of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Canted Valve:

quote:

Tell me this....which are better? Service jobs flipping burgers and working retail, or good paying manufacturing jobs?

Absolutely. Good paying manufacturing jobs was the backbone of the middle class. Joe Factory with pickup truck, towing his boat and family to the lake for the weekend is far better for the economy than Susie Nobrains working at Walmart and drawing food stamps.

Very True but those good paying factory jobs are going to China and very few if any will come back.

As I said in my earlier post our Government is the problem and not the solution. You can not have a Global Economy and only have a federal Income Tax for American workers. If you do a global economy then you need to tax the goods so that it does not matter where goods are made the Federal Government will get the taxes. By the way our Government spending is way out of control to and that is another big problem.
As our Tax System is now it punishes the American worker and forces Companies to send our jobs overseas in order to be competitive in our own house. No excuse for that. We need to put Americans first.
I think to blame companies for sending jobs to China is wrong. To blame Americans for buying Chinese goods that are much better price and good quality is wrong.
You have to look at why we a forced to make that choice and it is because of our Government tax system. If we are on a level playing field America can compete and win against anyone and everyone in the World. Problem is our Government.

Good paying manufacturing jobs are the backbone of any good economy. When you lose those the retail and service jobs will suffer to.

What they've done is offshored the wages -jobs, and replaced those wages with expanded credit.

People buying things they don't need, with money they don't have, to impress people they don't like.

They can't lose because when any credit bubble bursts, they bail themselves out.

Heads I win, tails you lose.

It's brilliant really.

Anybody follow Peter Zeihan? His take on China is that they are going away this decade and to Paul's point about Mexico, he says that Mexican labor is more skilled and 1/3 the cost of China. Interesting stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHs8wqj3WQY

One additional thought on China - yes, we depend on them for many products, uncomfortably so, BUT - they also depend heavily on our purchases to feed their people. It's a double edged sword.

quote:

Originally posted by SlyFox:
One additional thought on China - yes, we depend on them for many products, uncomfortably so, BUT - they also depend heavily on our purchases to feed their people. It's a double edged sword.

That is true and exactly why they liked Trump in China and hate Biden. Our Economy was booming under Trump and Biden has killed it. That hurts China and the whole rest of the World but mostly America.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
What they've done is offshored the wages -jobs, and replaced those wages with expanded credit.

People buying things they don't need, with money they don't have, to impress people they don't like.

They can't lose because when any credit bubble bursts, they bail themselves out.

Heads I win, tails you lose.

It's brilliant really.

Mike, there is no doubt you and I will never see eye to eye on stuff but dude. You are on here posting stuff like above then over in the tech section talking up Chinese import parts. I think you need to pick a side. You post some crazy crap but at least I believe you want to be a supporter of American manufacturing.

I know everything can't be bought MIA, but I think we should do as much as we possibly can. Obviously that will be different for each person but pushing those products helps the Chinese.

quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
What they've done is offshored the wages -jobs, and replaced those wages with expanded credit.

People buying things they don't need, with money they don't have, to impress people they don't like.

They can't lose because when any credit bubble bursts, they bail themselves out.

Heads I win, tails you lose.

It's brilliant really.

Mike, there is no doubt you and I will never see eye to eye on stuff but dude. You are on here posting stuff like above then over in the tech section talking up Chinese import parts. I think you need to pick a side. You post some crazy crap but at least I believe you want to be a supporter of American manufacturing.

I know everything can't be bought MIA, but I think we should do as much as we possibly can. Obviously that will be different for each person but pushing those products helps the Chinese.

I post crazy crap? Now that is funny seeing you not only failed the simple injection IQ test but also posted crazy crap promoting injections. While at the same time thinking I was crazy for trying to inform you, or anyone who'd listen not to take it. Of course back then you thought that was crazy crap as well.

It's pretty plain to see, which of the two of us is sane, I didn't fail the IQ test, you did while regurgitating crazy crap you heard on TV.

As far as china goes, these are American companies hiring chinese labor. It's not only American companies, it's all countries in western civilization hiring chinese labor. I know a lot more about it than you do.

If you wanna take a side, don't vote for any the current leadership who've lead this country to this point. You have nothing to lose not voting, because as it is now, nothing you want, or are for matters.

Nothing, notta, zilch.

That probably sounds crazy too, because it is the awful Truth, unpleasant to the ears, AND you didn't hear it on TV.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Rietow,

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:

quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
What they've done is offshored the wages -jobs, and replaced those wages with expanded credit.

People buying things they don't need, with money they don't have, to impress people they don't like.

They can't lose because when any credit bubble bursts, they bail themselves out.

Heads I win, tails you lose.

It's brilliant really.

Mike, there is no doubt you and I will never see eye to eye on stuff but dude. You are on here posting stuff like above then over in the tech section talking up Chinese import parts. I think you need to pick a side. You post some crazy crap but at least I believe you want to be a supporter of American manufacturing.

I know everything can't be bought MIA, but I think we should do as much as we possibly can. Obviously that will be different for each person but pushing those products helps the Chinese.

I post crazy crap? Now that is funny seeing you not only failed the simple injection IQ test but also posted crazy crap promoting injections. While at the same time thinking I was crazy for trying to inform you, or anyone who'd listen not to take it. Of course back then you thought that was crazy crap as well.

It's pretty plain to see, which of the two of us is sane, I didn't fail the IQ test, you did while regurgitating crazy crap you heard on TV.

As far as china goes, these are American companies hiring chinese labor. It's not only American companies, it's all countries in western civilization hiring chinese labor. I know a lot more about it than you do.

If you wanna take a side, don't vote for any the current leadership who've lead this country to this point. You have nothing to lose not voting, because as it is now, nothing you want, or are for matters.

Nothing, notta, zilch.

That probably sounds crazy too, because it is the awful Truth, unpleasant to the ears, AND you didn't hear it on TV.

So you will just pass the buck about it then. Got it.

quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:

quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
What they've done is offshored the wages -jobs, and replaced those wages with expanded credit.

People buying things they don't need, with money they don't have, to impress people they don't like.

They can't lose because when any credit bubble bursts, they bail themselves out.

Heads I win, tails you lose.

It's brilliant really.

Mike, there is no doubt you and I will never see eye to eye on stuff but dude. You are on here posting stuff like above then over in the tech section talking up Chinese import parts. I think you need to pick a side. You post some crazy crap but at least I believe you want to be a supporter of American manufacturing.

I know everything can't be bought MIA, but I think we should do as much as we possibly can. Obviously that will be different for each person but pushing those products helps the Chinese.

I post crazy crap? Now that is funny seeing you not only failed the simple injection IQ test but also posted crazy crap promoting injections. While at the same time thinking I was crazy for trying to inform you, or anyone who'd listen not to take it. Of course back then you thought that was crazy crap as well.

It's pretty plain to see, which of the two of us is sane, I didn't fail the IQ test, you did while regurgitating crazy crap you heard on TV.

As far as china goes, these are American companies hiring chinese labor. It's not only American companies, it's all countries in western civilization hiring chinese labor. I know a lot more about it than you do.

If you wanna take a side, don't vote for any the current leadership who've lead this country to this point. You have nothing to lose not voting, because as it is now, nothing you want, or are for matters.

Nothing, notta, zilch.

That probably sounds crazy too, because it is the awful Truth, unpleasant to the ears, AND you didn't hear it on TV.

So you will just pass the buck about it then. Got it.

There's no turning back once you take the red pill Curtis, be careful.

Your vision will change

Mike, what you are alluding to has nothing to do with the question I asked you. I believe you should run for government office. You never answer a direct question with a straight answer.

Also if you were in government you could fix all the things you think you have the answer to.