I am curious to see how people vote after the previous discussions recommendations by members to only allow 1 car and 1 driver at events and the ongoing debate between doubles and no doubles. I am also curious as to the thoughts on time-runs and buybacks. <BR><BR><BR>For questions below assume that double entries means ALL forms of double entries.Do you refuse to go to an event that has double entries?I typically try to go to events that only allow single entriesI will go to an event that allows double entries, but would prefer single entries onlyI typically try to go to events that allow double entriesWould you be willing to pay an entry fee that is around 25% higher for a single entry only event?yes, I would pay a higher entry feeno, I would not pay a higher entry feeWould you travel a ****her distance to go to a single entry only event given all other aspects of the event remain the same?I would be willing to travel a ****herI would not be willing to travel a ****her distanceWould you travel a ****her distance to go to an event that allows double entries instead of only single entries given all other aspects of the event remain the same?I would travel ****her for a double entry race than a single entry raceI would not travel ****her for a double entry racewhat is your preferred time run structure at a weekend only event?no time runs any day (assume buy backs with this pick)one time run for the entire weekendone time run each daytwo time runs each day (assume no buy backs with this pick)What is your preferred buyback structure?no buy backsbuybacks first round onlybuybacks first OR second roundbuybacks first AND second roundBuybacks race buybacks or buybacks get thrown into the next round?buybacks race buybacks (re-entry round)buybacks get thrown into the next round

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***her

I guess the word far-ther is not allowed because the first 4 letters spell f a r t... interesting

Don't look like the promoters are voting

This is a good pole. I encourage you to vote. My purpose of the other post was to give promoters and idea to what racers think.

Thanks,
SL...

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Originally posted by racerdude2054:

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***her

I guess the word far-ther is not allowed because the first 4 letters spell f a r t... interesting

The correct word is further. Far-ther is a tad bit different..........

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Originally posted by Mike Beck:

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Originally posted by racerdude2054:

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***her

I guess the word far-ther is not allowed because the first 4 letters spell f a r t... interesting

The correct word is further. Far-ther is a tad bit different..........

Far ther = physical distance

Further = metaphorical distance

As someone who announces much more than races these days, I see what really happens at these races.
Problem is not double entries. It's not following the rules posted. Too many times, especially at no buy back races, there is a rush of "new entries" at the end of first round for races who didn't get past first round. This gives certain racers nearly unlimited shots at first round.
I have personally seen racers go down the track in excess of three times during first round, even though the flyer says "car and/or driver cannot go down the track more than twice".

I have no problem with double entries, as long as double entries are enforced!

I had to pick something for the first one, but I honestly couldnt care less if a race allows double entries or not. I'm not going to search one out that does, nor not go to one that doesnt. It's really not an issue to me.

If ya gonna have buybacks just raise the entry the same as for bb and do away with a round

I don't mind double entries at all...I can't double as a rule due to physical limitations...as to buybacks, I think they are very important for the travelling racer...I am not particularly interested in towing 6 hours or more to lose round one and go home...just my .02...

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Originally posted by fuzzy dice:
I don't mind double entries at all...I can't double as a rule due to physical limitations...as to buybacks, I think they are very important for the travelling racer...I am not particularly interested in towing 6 hours or more to lose round one and go home...just my .02...

Great point. I laugh because I traveled 18 hours to a race once only to race for 18 seconds.

My favorite races is entry fees under $100 with a $5000 win.

I don't like to gamble with the huge entry fee races.

quote:

Originally posted by fuzzy dice:
I don't mind double entries at all...I can't double as a rule due to physical limitations...as to buybacks, I think they are very important for the travelling racer...I am not particularly interested in towing 6 hours or more to lose round one and go home...just my .02...

^^^^^^ THIS X2

To me much of it comes down to payout per entries and I do not care if there is buybacks or doubles as long as it is set up so the race can run quickly.
The payout may look decent for a say 350 car count but then you add Doubles (doubling the entries but not doubling payout) and then you add buy backs some times two rounds and that does not double payout. Now that 350 car payout is not really 350 entries it is maybe 900 into the pot yet payout has not increased the same.
I want the promoter and track to make money for taking the risk but I want the payout to be fair even local regular bracket races. If I feel payout is not inline with number of entries I will not support it. With that said I rarely do the big money races anyway because I do not have motor home and prefer to stay local.

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Originally posted by Curly1:
To me much of it comes down to payout per entries and I do not care if there is buybacks or doubles as long as it is set up so the race can run quickly.
The payout may look decent for a say 350 car count but then you add Doubles (doubling the entries but not doubling payout) and then you add buy backs some times two rounds and that does not double payout. Now that 350 car payout is not really 350 entries it is maybe 900 into the pot yet payout has not increased the same.
I want the promoter and track to make money for taking the risk but I want the payout to be fair even local regular bracket races. If I feel payout is not inline with number of entries I will not support it. With that said I rarely do the big money races anyway because I do not have motor home and prefer to stay local.

That's really what it is about for me too. What is the investment, and how many rounds to the money? Throw in there what the round money is and where it starts, and that is all I am really concerned about. I support buybacks for the reasons listed above. And double entries....I guess for me it is just more rounds of racing potential and more money in the kitty. As long as they structure it that way. If it is a big numbers draw race, and they allow two rounds of buybacks and double entries....and they start paying at 16 cars....that doesn't interest me.

When the rules are the same for everyone, and we start worrying about what everyone else is or can do, all the fun goes away. We get so wrapped up in worrying about racing the same guy or car twice, and how many entries the winner had and what kind of equipment others are using, that we lose focus on our own program and where we can improve. Bracket racing by its nature really is about cutting a light and having a finish line strategy that works for you. I really don't think it is a mistake that certain racers over the years have been legendary for being able to win big races. They have their nuts and bolts tight and their heads screwed on straight. Heck, some of them will even teach YOU how to win more rounds and more races if you want to pay them and listen to them.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bucky,

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Would you be willing to pay an entry fee that is around 25% higher for a single entry only event?

I've run the numbers on many different events, and the entry fee would typically have to be 40-45% higher in order to support the expected payouts.

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Originally posted by Curly1:
The payout may look decent for a say 350 car count but then you add Doubles (doubling the entries but not doubling payout) and then you add buy backs some times two rounds and that does not double payout. Now that 350 car payout is not really 350 entries it is maybe 900 into the pot yet payout has not increased the same.

Car counts include double entries, and are expressed as the number of entries, not the physical number of cars on the property, and purses are set based on an understanding of the double-entry rules (and buyback rules for that matter). I'm not aware of any race that is otherwise. 350 car count races are not 900 car count races.

No problem with doubles. But if they are doubled they should only get one time run, not one per entry. Fair is fair. I have no issue with some one running to separate cars and getting a tt for each.

Where is the

"just quit whining, shut up and race where you're happy" option?

Y'all keep this **** up, my grandkids won't have a chance to bracket race at all.


If you are so focused on who has how many entries, and what the payout is, you're ALWAYS gonna be a loser.

I'll run the same car 7-8-9 times, don't care, whatever is in the other lane has NOTHING to do with the race in my lane.

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Originally posted by Michael Beard:

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Would you be willing to pay an entry fee that is around 25% higher for a single entry only event?

I've run the numbers on many different events, and the entry fee would typically have to be 40-45% higher in order to support the expected payouts.

Thank you for the information Michael

Since most say they prefer a single entry race, buy backs first round only, and deep payouts. Here is a small breakdown of an example for what it would take for a race.

10K to win
2,000 runner up
1,000 semi
800 dollar 8 cars
600 dollars 16 cars
400 dollars 32 cars
200 dollars 64 cars

Total purse payout = 35,000 dollars

The entry fee would need to be around 250 dollars with a buyback of 100 dollars for the promoter/track to stand a chance at making any money at all. There would have to be 150 entries for the track to not go into the red. Realistically a promoter would want 200 plus entries to that event and I do not see it happening. So, for a promoter to make money at 150 entries there would have to be a entry fee of 300 dollars roughly. I feel like many would not pay a 300 dollar entry fee for 10K to win. All of this is assuming no hefty sponsors of course.

If the entry fee was 150 dollars with a 75 dollar buyback (which I feel is what most would WANT to pay) then there would have to be nearly 300 entries for the race to be profitable at all

We as bracket racers do not bring in spectators, and that hurts us a lot

If the same 150 cars showed up and there was an option for doubles and 20% of the cars doubled and there were first OR second round buy backs then the entry fee could drop roughly 33% for the same amount of money to be made by the promoter