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Holding and Killing #'s Questions
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DRR Sportsman
posted
How much ET do you kill by lifting at the MPH cone 1 time?

Where do you primarily try to kill ET?

How much do/have you hold/held during a run?

What is your theory behind how much or little you hold?

Do you believe in holding every run or only in some cases?

How do you choose whether you're going to hold that run or not?

Do you think a guy who has a consistent car is at a disadvantage if everyone knows he's dialing to go dead on? Why?
 
Posts: 664 | Location: UTD | Registered: September 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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Wow,that's alot of questions all at once.
 
Posts: 1169 | Location: Elgin,IL | Registered: February 08, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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IMO the best answer to all of your questions is to be predictability unpredictable.
 
Posts: 549 | Location: somewhere between been and never was | Registered: November 03, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Goob
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I never hold numbers, except when I hold numbers. Wink


"Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular."
Dave Cook
N375
 
Posts: 1679 | Location: Indy | Registered: November 21, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR / Crew
Picture of DragRaceResults
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Holytown, great questions. Obviously you see we have a bunch of old geezers here that would rather speak about the past.

Q1 depends on mph of car.

Q2 multiple places

Q3 enough to make you look perfect on the track

Q4 similar to Q3 and Q5

Q5 depends on who you're racing or track conditions

Q6 similar to Q3, 4, 5, 6

Q7 no, actually at an advantage if you can get them to believe you're not or you can give them a different look each time.

SL...
 
Posts: 2111 | Location: Gallatin, TN - U.S.A. | Registered: October 12, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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quote:
Originally posted by 1320racer:
https://learn.thisisbracketracing.com/


What Ed wrote….. Excellent place to learn this and much more
 
Posts: 2484 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
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When a guy can let go at .000 and hold his foot to the floor to run dead on zero,I'm not sure all of this matters.
 
Posts: 1169 | Location: Elgin,IL | Registered: February 08, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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I hold more when I index race because I have more time to judge and dump. If my index is 9.00, I'm going into the race knowing it'll run 8.95. Bracket racing, I base my "holding" on how fast or slow the car is next to me. I'll usually dial dead on if I'm running a car 1.5 seconds or more faster than me. I don't worry about what the other guy is doing, unless he's Mr. Big Ego in the lanes, then I play games.
 
Posts: 291 | Location: Midwest  | Registered: January 12, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Michael Beard
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SL pretty much covered it, but I'll add...

- How much ET do you kill by lifting at the MPH cone 1 time?

Depends on the gear, weight, carb, mph, 1/8 or 1/4, how long you lifted, etc. Your job is to practice something repeatable and learn how much it is for YOU and YOUR combo. i.e. Quick rips with my EFI combination don't do hardly anything. Rip it once in the 1/4 mile with my buddy's thermoquad 340 Stocker, and the thing about stops. LOL

- Where do you primarily try to kill ET?

Depends on the run and how the race is playing out. Typically it's very late in the run, as I usually don't have much if any work to do.

- How much do/have you hold/held during a run?

How much DO I hold? None, until I change my mind. How much HAVE I held? .10-.12 in some really bad situations. Actually, I guess you could say I've held about 3.8 seconds before... Dragway 42's Hangover Nationals New Year's race is an index race of whatever the year is. I came up with a method of getting my low 16-sec Dakota to run the 20.xx index pretty close, killing 99% of it up front. I've held a tenth or more in the 1/8th and killed most of it by half track before. I've held a tenth in the 1/4 on a godawful track, and killed most of what I needed to around 1000'. But generally I'm dialed honest.

- What is your theory behind how much or little you hold?

You don't have to hold any more than what you could possibly be behind on the tree. I dial honest, then decide downtrack if I need to adjust my E.T.

- Do you believe in holding every run or only in some cases?

Only in some cases. I want to limit the number of variables I introduce in a run.

- How do you choose whether you're going to hold that run or not?

Based on how I hit the tree, how the race is playing out, and/or last second changes in wind, weather, or track that weren't already accounted for.

- Do you think a guy who has a consistent car is at a disadvantage if everyone knows he's dialing to go dead on? Why?

LOL! I ADVERTISE that I'm dialed honest. You have to run me like I'm dialed honest, because I am. You can do whatever you feel like with that information. Wink


On the flip side, holding numbers is also most effective with a consistent car, so that you can predictably kill when and how much you want to achieve your goal.


__
Michael Beard - staginglight@gmail.com
Staging Light Graphic Design, Printing & Event Marketing

 
Posts: 5736 | Location: Columbus, OH | Registered: December 15, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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try it and find out what the difference is for your car lifting at the 1st mph cone,its not much,depends on how fast your car is as to the difference.Most good racers knowing their holding numbers know if they cant get to the stripe and lift enough ,they will dump you off at the finish line,thinking they will run close to their dial-in and push their competition out.
 
Posts: 1015 | Location: LIVERMORE CA. | Registered: June 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of SlyFox
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Somebody posted on this site a good while ago statistics from run sheets at 1/8 mile races (John Rollins maybe? Or was it Michael Beard?) that showed that on 80% of pairs in 1/8 mile racing, the better reaction time was the winner. Based on that data, I'd say dial as close to honest as your car's consistency allows, and spend time working on your reaction time as opposed to developing holding strategies.

JMHO


Mike
 
Posts: 1566 | Location: Marietta, GA | Registered: December 09, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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quote:
Originally posted by SlyFox:
Somebody posted on this site a good while ago statistics from run sheets at 1/8 mile races (John Rollins maybe? Or was it Michael Beard?) that showed that on 80% of pairs in 1/8 mile racing, the better reaction time was the winner. Based on that data, I'd say dial as close to honest as your car's consistency allows, and spend time working on your reaction time as opposed to developing holding strategies.

JMHO


Consider also what I tell my son: A better reaction time makes everything work better at the finish line. It's much harder to do your job and win finish line racing if you are at a disadvantage at the starting line.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6416 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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Bottom line is this, if you want to be a player, you and your car better be able to put together .015 packages and better at will.
 
Posts: 13522 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
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what is this holding you speak of. i dial down 1 and dont let out til i get to the ticket booth

ep
 
Posts: 767 | Location: dodging double wides... | Registered: November 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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quote:
Somebody posted on this site a good while ago statistics from run sheets at 1/8 mile races (John Rollins maybe? Or was it Michael Beard?) that showed that on 80% of pairs in 1/8 mile racing, the better reaction time was the winner


Actually the % is much higher than 80% if you change that from better than or no greater than .002 difference in RT. It’s car and luck after that.

What many of the event race winners have are timely breaks. Look at Drag Story for these results.
 
Posts: 2484 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of J178RED
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quote:
Originally posted by DragRaceResults:
Holytown, great questions. Obviously you see we have a bunch of old geezers here that would rather speak about the past.

Q1 depends on mph of car.

Q2 multiple places

Q3 enough to make you look perfect on the track

Q4 similar to Q3 and Q5

Q5 depends on who you're racing or track conditions

Q6 similar to Q3, 4, 5, 6

Q7 no, actually at an advantage if you can get them to believe you're not or you can give them a different look each time.
SL...


This is all good !


HAVE THEY CALLED US YET ? THEY HAVE!!!
 
Posts: 2698 | Location: OLD NICK OUT ON THE TRACK OR IN THE DESERT | Registered: March 09, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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A technique I've been working on is dialing dead honest and spraying my way under if I am trying to make it look closer/different. Of course its much harder to do this against cars with a ET gap more than .5 second or so 1/8 mile. I think people vastly under estimate how much nitrous can be an effective tool.
 
Posts: 89 | Location: Inverness, Fl | Registered: November 14, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Paul S/Q
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quote:
Originally posted by 1320racer:
Bottom line is this, if you want to be a player, you and your car better be able to put together .015 packages and better at will.




THIS ^^^^^^
 
Posts: 784 | Location: hopefully pickin up a check in the winners circle | Registered: November 29, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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quote:
Originally posted by J178RED:
quote:
Originally posted by DragRaceResults:
Holytown, great questions. Obviously you see we have a bunch of old geezers here that would rather speak about the past.

Q1 depends on mph of car.

Q2 multiple places

Q3 enough to make you look perfect on the track

Q4 similar to Q3 and Q5

Q5 depends on who you're racing or track conditions

Q6 similar to Q3, 4, 5, 6

Q7 no, actually at an advantage if you can get them to believe you're not or you can give them a different look each time.
SL...


This is all good !


Yes excellent excellent summary!


BG
 
Posts: 760 | Location: Florence, SC | Registered: August 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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