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Stage-Lock
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DRR Trophy
posted
Hi All

I'm sure this subject has been beaten to death over the years since Stage-Lock was implemented, but how exactly does it work?

Also, those in the know with TruStart how was Stage-lock incorporated, or should it have had no effect?

I will elaborate on the issue we are having after I rediscover how Stage-lock works. Thought I knew, but I haven't discussed it in a while and I may be miss-remembering the actual functionality...

Thanks


Brad
 
Posts: 172 | Location: tucson | Registered: July 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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The stage lock timer starts when all 4 bulbs are lit. All 4 have to be continuously lit for the entire stage lock timer(usually .6). If any light flickers, the timer starts over.

After .6 has passed with all 4 bulbs lit, the timer to activate the tree is then started.


david
 
Posts: 10 | Location: rochester | Registered: November 18, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
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I can't say how it works. But I will say that there is one track that we have jr raced at a few times that does not have stage lock. I don't know if the other tracks we race at have it by the way. It can be the death of a shallow stager in a jr. When they swap feet, the car can actually very briefly roll back, and out of the beam, causing a red light. My son is a careful shallow stager, and it bit him twice. I'm not arguing right or wrong. But being different than all the other tracks made it a no brainer to not go there to race.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 6240 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Also somebody can correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't raced at a track with TruStart yet, but I can't imagine why stage lock would have any impact on it. Stage Lock is a timer before the timer to activate the tree starts. You can't have a RT until the tree is activated.


david
 
Posts: 10 | Location: rochester | Registered: November 18, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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I thought stage lock locked the second bulb on after you were in it for .6 seconds or whatever it is set to, eliminated the flicker once it was locked. I could be wrong and it would be the first time. Big Grin
 
Posts: 2591 | Location: at the track | Registered: May 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of BarneyB
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I was told years ago Stage Lock was to prevent when cars would stage real shallow, set the brake and the car would back out of the beams and turn the red on.



WiredTwoWin race car wiring



 
Posts: 2436 | Location: Wadsworth, Ohio | Registered: December 12, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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What Barney said but he said it in simpler terms.
 
Posts: 2591 | Location: at the track | Registered: May 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Trophy
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So after asking a somewhat vague question..

Here was my understanding of what it was designed for:

I was under the impression that Stage-Lock would essentially "Lock" your position as "Staged" after some amount of time. This would prevent a person from having the issue of being shallow staged and applying the T-brake and bumping back out as the tree fell. This would also allow a person that was having the bulb "flicker" to either be locked in or out depending on what position it determined you were in when it "Locked". This would then lock the stage light ON if staged at the time or OFF if not and eliminate the distraction of the flickering bulb..

It seems that others believe this is at least mostly what its function is.. correct me if I'm am misreading your posts.

Here is the issue we are seeing and not fully understanding. Mind you, this has only happened at races with TruStart in effect.

A car will stage.. both light solid on, no flicker. Apply the Tbrake go against the converter and the tree will drop. (slower car on bottom bulb car so were on the Tbrake for all 3 bulbs) driver A leaves on the 3rd yellow with TruStart light goes green. Other side of the tree drops and driver A goes something like 2.500 RED. not -.250... -2.500.. Happen 3 passes in a row. on the 3rd pass he was finally the faster car and it went red as his side of the tree dropped. 1 bulb then both Stage and Pre-Stage light go off together and RED car didn't move still on the Tbrake. Came off throttle (Still holding Tbrake) tree resets and now instead of being completely staged he is only pre-staged.

This seems like an issue where the car is in super shallow tbrake is applies and car bumps back out, but Stage-Lok has locked the "Stage" bulb on so driver thinks (and doesn't feel car move) that he is staged fine. It then seems like once the tree starts to drop Stage-Lock releases and driver is now not staged so it red lights them.. Isn't the point to lock them in until the green light? or the car actually moves?

Just to clarify Both "Stage" and "Pre-stage" bulbs are lit with no flicker until the top bulb drops and they go out together while the car sits there on the Tbrake watching the bulbs drop.. when tree resets car is only pre-staged.. whats happening and how and why?


Brad
 
Posts: 172 | Location: tucson | Registered: July 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Boucher Jr
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Its not that complicated...

Stage lock= Invented by democrat voting three step users who aparently cant make a car sit still to go along with their lack of ability to control one in motion.

Its really pathetic that it exists.
 
Posts: 233 | Location: Il. | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I was under the impression that stage lock is used to assist the racer that flickers the stage light while staging.

Once stage lock times out, if you backed out of the tree prior to or during the first yellow going ON, you’ve RL.

I don’t believe (could be wrong) it was developed to allow a car to back out of the stage beam when the tree was activated.

I raced at tracks that announce that they do not use stage lock. This is telling me that if you flicker the stage light while staging and you’re the second car to stage, you run the risk of starting the tree and RL using this method.

If a car rocks backward or forward once staged on the start line, the racer would need to address this issue not the other way around.
 
Posts: 2287 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I get it may be a driver issue but how is one to know they’ve backed out of the beam at any point if the bulb doesn’t flicker?

How does one go from being staged on the Tbrake on the converter to not being staged when the tree resets...?

If I can figure out how to post the video I have I will.. unfortunately it is of a pass where the lights stay lit. But you should be able to see that the car isn’t just backing up 3 inches while on the converter you can’t even tell it moves at all to change it’s “stage” position..


Brad
 
Posts: 172 | Location: tucson | Registered: July 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If you are shallow staged you don’t have to move 3” to unstage, only have to move enough to allow the beam to reconnect with the sensor. This could be as little as 1/4” and possibly less I am sure.
 
Posts: 2591 | Location: at the track | Registered: May 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just to make sure I’m understanding everyone’s conclusion with stage-Lock.. shallow staged the Stage bulb will lock on and if after that point the car were to rock back enough to become not staged anymore you wouldn’t know until the tree activated because at that point the flicker would have been eliminated.. this would then red light you because you are not staged. Even though to everyone watching you were staged the entire time?

I’m 100% fine with this conclusion I’m just trying to make sure everyone else feels like this is how the system is working..

This seems like a completely useless function only limiting the ability of a driver to fix his possible staging issue.. My new question would be to whom is this benefiting and why was it inplamented in the first place?


Brad
 
Posts: 172 | Location: tucson | Registered: July 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of TomR
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https://www.racemdir.com/rules...s_and_procedures.pdf

quote:
Compulink StageLok: The StageLok System is run in every class during every event. The long-standing “shallow-staged” red light problem is a thing of the past with this system. Before this system was designed, cars or bikes that were very lightly staged could easily vibrate or rock out of the staging beam. When that happened, the infrared beam reconnects causing what may “appear” as a false red light foul. In many cases, the simple vibration would cause the foul for those who shallow staged, even without the rocking of the car or bike when the rpm’s were raised. In all cases of shallow-staged red light fouls, it appeared that the car never moved. This is because the infrared staging beam measures 1/100 of an inch. So for those who shallow-staged, it didn’t take much for that beam to reconnect for a vehicle that isn’t line-locked which rolls backwards, trans-brake slippage or simple unloading of the front tires caused by torque when the motor is “matted” against a trans-brake (generally the #1 cause of shallow-staged red lights).

The StageLok system was designed to prevent these “false” (yet legally binding) red lights fouls. Here’s an inside look at how the system actually works. Prior to either car entering the Pre-Stage beam, the starter manually triggers a switch that tells the computer to arm the AutoStart system. The Timing System takes control of the run from that point on, eliminating the possibility of human error. Once both cars have satisfied the “Staged Minimum” time preset (usually .5 seconds, but varies from class to class), the StageLok sequence initiates before the tree is fired allowing the racer 1” of rearward travel before the stage beam will go out. This 1” allowance is active through the entire AutoStart System, until the algorithm has reached the green light - at which point a rearward movement will not result in a red light foul.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TomR,


72 Nova "Hooptie"
 
Posts: 722 | Location: Hanover, MD | Registered: June 20, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
Picture of BarneyB
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quote:
Originally posted by Tom Reyer:
quote:
Compulink StageLok: The StageLok System is run in every class during every event. The long-standing “shallow-staged” red light problem is a thing of the past with this system. Before this system was designed, cars or bikes that were very lightly staged could easily vibrate or rock out of the staging beam. When that happened, the infrared beam reconnects causing what may “appear” as a false red light foul. In many cases, the simple vibration would cause the foul for those who shallow staged, even without the rocking of the car or bike when the rpm’s were raised. In all cases of shallow-staged red light fouls, it appeared that the car never moved. This is because the infrared staging beam measures 1/100 of an inch. So for those who shallow-staged, it didn’t take much for that beam to reconnect for a vehicle that isn’t line-locked which rolls backwards, trans-brake slippage or simple unloading of the front tires caused by torque when the motor is “matted” against a trans-brake (generally the #1 cause of shallow-staged red lights).

The StageLok system was designed to prevent these “false” (yet legally binding) red lights fouls. Here’s an inside look at how the system actually works. Prior to either car entering the Pre-Stage beam, the starter manually triggers a switch that tells the computer to arm the AutoStart system. The Timing System takes control of the run from that point on, eliminating the possibility of human error. Once both cars have satisfied the “Staged Minimum” time preset (usually .5 seconds, but varies from class to class), the StageLok sequence initiates before the tree is fired allowing the racer 1” of rearward travel before the stage beam will go out. This 1” allowance is active through the entire AutoStart System, until the algorithm has reached the green light - at which point a rearward movement will not result in a red light foul.


And there you go, thanks Tom



WiredTwoWin race car wiring



 
Posts: 2436 | Location: Wadsworth, Ohio | Registered: December 12, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR / Crew
Picture of DragRaceResults
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"Stage Lock" = problems. This feature is so flawed it's unbelievable.

Don't get me started
 
Posts: 1955 | Location: Gallatin, TN - U.S.A. | Registered: October 12, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Turk
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Compulink StageLok: The StageLok System is run in every class during every event.

I believe that statement is only true for national events. The track has to pay and have this add on option installed and alot do not have it. Its an expensive upgrade. Many small tracks don't want it or cant afford it.
 
Posts: 175 | Location: New Stanton | Registered: January 25, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Michael Beard
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quote:
Originally posted by DragRaceResults:
"Stage Lock" = problems. This feature is so flawed it's unbelievable.

Don't get me started


x2.

Here's everything you need to know about StageLok: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A5BIAz6W2w


quote:
Compulink StageLok: The StageLok System is run in every class during every event.


This is FALSE. Even if StageLok is available on a system, it can be turned off.


__
Michael Beard - staginglight@gmail.com
Staging Light Graphic Design, Printing & Event Marketing

 
Posts: 5727 | Location: Columbus, OH | Registered: December 15, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of TomR
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Sorry, the quote above was from MDIR's website. I usually post the source but forgot to add it.


72 Nova "Hooptie"
 
Posts: 722 | Location: Hanover, MD | Registered: June 20, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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x2.

Here's everything you need to know about StageLok: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A5BIAz6W2w


This is EXACTLY what is happening only problem is with TruStart also in play the reactions are -2.5000 red because it calculates out further and the bulbs keep dropping obviously as we've all see how TruStart works..

Is there a solution?? Is this just a bad sensor or is the Stage-Lock function just that terrible of a program? Does anyone know if Stage-Lock can be turned off and TruStart be left on or is it written into the TruStart program?


Brad
 
Posts: 172 | Location: tucson | Registered: July 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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