quote:

Originally posted by Mike Nitzsche:
This is getting off the original reason for posting. I'm going to have to say, just because a person has a CDL, does not make them "commercial" towing a race car. I have dozens of friends who are truck drivers by day, racers on the weekend with MH's and trailers that are not commercial and in they're personnel names. I don't see how having a CDL means everything you drive is commercial.

If it's over 26000 lbs and you have a CDL and the cop proves you win money racing...YOUR Commercial...any questions?

Torqin is 100% again.

My neighbor WAS a CDL truck driver for Penney's department stores. He would drive from the distribution centers to the stores over night.
One morning he comes home from work, his son missed the bus so he had to drive him to school in his regular car.
As he drives into the school he is followed in by an officer. The speed limit in front of the school is 15 MPH while school is in session. Since his son was late he was traveling a little to fast, 35 MPH BUT this was still over half a mile away from the school.

At any rate, he lost his CDL (which WAS his regular drivers license). I guess 20 MPH over is terms for immediate loss of license in the CDL world.
In turn, he lost his job because he couldn't drive anymore, he lost his house (no work), and his wife divorced him. His kids won't even speak to him anymore, it's sad.

Moral of the story is, IF YOU HAVE A CDL EVERY TIME YOU DRIVE YOU ARE HELD AT THE CDL STANDARDS, PERIOD. It doesn't matter WHAT you are driving.

From what I understand there are ALOT more "tighter" restrictions on CDL's (alcohol, etc).

The FMCSA (FEDS) have exceptions in the federal guidelines about people who win money in their hobbies.

It all gets back to.....do you do this for a living? Do you write off all of it on your taxes.

These are the 2 key elements.

Mike B , do you have a CDL?

TORQIN

I do have a Class A CDL
I need a CDL for my job.

I am not worried about the "CDL" part when I am in my RV and trailer.

I keep a copy of the FMCSA rules. I try to keep it clean on the road, speed limits, all equipment working properly, etc.

I have also had conversations with the DPS people about all this.

While the officer on the road might think differently, the people at DPS are good with what I am doing and the way I do.

I do not use log books, rig is not DOTd.

I do have a medical card, I keep a copy with me, but, only if demanded will I present it.

Like Mike said, this has been beat to death.

Look up the FMCSA rules, I have suggested this many times, not many are willing to take the time, I have also posted it on FB forums and on here.

I try and get my info from the source, not my uncles, cousins neighbor.

And yes, having a CDL makes getting tickets a PITA. 3 years on your record, 10 points and back to Class C, etc.

So, I guess we all have he said, she said stories, but what I'm interested in is stories of racers getting screwed because they have a CDL. There are A LOT of stories about them getting screwed without a CDL. Maybe it's because Mi is different, but I have quite a few buddies with CDL's, that have never had an issue ever.

Mike B/Mike N,

I understand your individual positions, and respect your thoughts. I can respectfully say I do not agree with them.

I am sure there are some racers with CDL's that have been hassled and hopefully more can chime in.

Again, I mean no disrespect by my statements as I spent a lot of time trying to do it the correct way and everyone's interpretation of the law can be different. All my information came from our state capitol in Austin at the DMV CDL division who sent me to the Lead training Sargent for that division.

I am not on FACEPLACE and don't care for it or the amounts of time wasted there. JMO

Ditto. I'm all good and feel I'm doing the right thing. There must be big differences from state to state. I also have physically talked to my states FMCSA division and the SOS. 4 years ago the state DOT told me I needed a CDL when I called. Two years ago I was told no by everyone and this year the state police told me no. I also have a buddy who knows a local DOT officer who states I do need a CDL, however, he would not pull me over unless I was committing a serious violation. On top of everything else, legal tow length in Mi is 65'. If you have any class of CDL, that length is now 75'. Just another reason why it's good.....imo.

Also, no disrespect, seriously, but I have noticed that it's always the guys who don't have a CDL that come up with all the reasons why they are bad.

So what some are saying is.....the license dictates how you operate, if you have a CDL, you are always CDL, no matter what?

I have been told that the equipment and the situation dictates the level of compliance needed.

Chris, have you looked at the federal guidelines, they might matter since most of us will cross state lines.

I will not come to any conclusions until the, one and only, ED tells us the truth, the whole truth, and nothing butt, the truth.
heavy on the B U T T!!!

LOL

Mike N.
I commend you on trying to do the right thing.

I tried several times over the years to get one for my RV and basically every time the DOT guys get pizzed at me.

I'm just stating what I witnessed first hand with my neighbor.
I actually helped him move and my wife and his ex are still good friends.
It was sad watching it all unfold.

Anyway, my hats off to you.

If you have a CDL you have to register your medical card with the state or your license (CDL part) will be suspended. if you have a CDL you are no longer eligible for driving school to reduce or eliminate any tickets, they are all keepers. If you have a CDL and violate some traffic infractions like excessive speeding or illegal turn,don't ask how I know this one, it can lead to CDL suspension if you get another one of the bad ones within a certain period of time.
Be careful what you're getting in to and learn about it ahead of time.

Eman

All true here in TX also.

I always suggest to people, get what you need, IF you need it.
No matter where you live, you are likely needing a license upgrade if you are rated over that magic 26,000 number.

In TX there is a NON-CDL option for those that are needing the upgrade, but only for personal use.

Several years ago, my brother got popped in our dually and 53' trailer with no CDL. After that, we both got CDLs, I registered with the DOT, ran log books, belonged to a random drug testing pool, Unified Carrier permit, etc. I was never pulled over in that time.

This year I upgraded to a toter pulling the same trailer. I don't run the DOT number but I do still have everything current since I went into the season thinking I'd be running the dually again. With RV plates, I'm running it like I don't need all of that stuff but I've been believing that it will be a good thing to have a class A license if I do get pulled over. I don't have an air brake endorsement, so that could be something.

I will say that I've been pulled over at least 3 times over the years in regular family vehicles where I was either let go completely, or ticketed for some ordinance that was not a moving violation since the officer noticed the CDL and didn't want to impact my livelihood (not really my livelihood).

Several out of staters have said similar things about normal traffic violations and CDL. I can find nothing on the net about MI and cannot find anyone in person that will agree with these statements. I'm not saying it's not true, but maybe different in Mi.

I can see where a non commercial class A would probably be the best, but that's just not an option.

TX license chart

Notice the charts are similar, the first being NON-CDL

The second chart for CDL

Great read re: CDL, etc

This was written regarding the new requirements for ELDs

It also includes some great info on what I mentioned in an above post.
Page down to the part about "Furtherance of a commercial endeavor"

It mentions hobby VS professional.

Do it for a living?
Do it for profit?
Tax write offs?

The FMCSA has exemptions for people like us who work a regular job and haul horses, race cars, etc on the weekends.

The FMCSA also reminds us that although we are not commercial, we still may need a license upgrade for the type of rig we drive to these events.

Like I said earlier, this is good to have with you, should you need info, the trooper may or may not give a rip, but at least you have it.

I always try to provide the real deal info.
I live in TX, the TX chart is worthless to those that live in other states.

The FMCSA info is hopefully helpful for all.

This article breaks it down and explains many of the questions people have.

This will either help you or confuse you, I hope it helps.

Safe travels and stay out of jail. LOL

Pretty good article MikeB. The only thing they left out is that ELD's are not required if you travel less than 8 days in a given month requiring a log device(ELD or paper log) That's not word for word, but something like that. Most racers would not be required to have ELD's. Basically, if you mostly travel to your local track, less than 100 air miles one way, and travel to a few races a year far away, you don't need an ELD. This is only a concern if your commercial.

That is correct Mike N.

I was mostly trying to show the FMCSA info on why most of us are not commercial.....even IF we DO win money.

Many think that if you win money that you are automatically a commercial entity.
That is simply not true, we still have to convince the trooper of that fact. That is why I carry a copy of the federal guidelines.

After all the talking and discussing and finger pointing and who knows what and who does not know what, most of us will never be in that spot with the trooper.

But, IF you are, it's nice to have some info to back you up.

Safe travels to all

I carry a whole folder full of that stuff also......along with bail money....lol. I hope to never have a problem, but I feel reasonably prepared if I do.

What I really like about all of this is I remember before the CDL. This was going to all be standardized and uniform to simplify it all and it would be a national license. I was grandfathered in when it all started and it's been through so many changes. The hazmat deal is the icing on the cake!