"However, if the local bracket, heads-up, no-prep, whatever, racers to stop racing, drag racing would stop. That’s how important the backbone of our sport is."

https://dragracingedge.com/the...ckbone-of-the-sport/

True of course, but NHRA will always, not surprisingly, follow the money. So I don't expect their attitude or treatment of the sportsman to change. I feel NHRA would gladly turn it's back on the sport if the big show money were to stop. They wouldn't be willing to regress back to what they once were. JMO

The problem with the current attitudes are, that the bracket racing IS WHERE a significant, reliable portion of the money comes from for tracks. You have to understand what motivates organizations. NHRA national and regional events have very little to do with bracket racing. But the TRACKS pay the bills week to week with bracket racing revenue. That is difficult for some newer track operators who don't come from grassroots to understand at first. Yes, bracket races and racers come with a decent quantity of headaches for operators, because there are so many of us.
They have to understand what many car dealers do: You gotta sell chevy's and Cadillacs. It's the entire package that makes the finances of a track work.

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:
The problem with the current attitudes are, that the bracket racing IS WHERE a significant, reliable portion of the money comes from for tracks.

I seriously doubt that. At my local track (Atlanta Dragway) I'm sure 90% or more of their revenue comes from the national event. The Friday night street car racing draws cars and spectators with no purse/payouts. I'm thinking they do pretty good just to break even on bracket racing.

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:
The problem with the current attitudes are, that the bracket racing IS WHERE a significant, reliable portion of the money comes from for tracks. You have to understand what motivates organizations. NHRA national and regional events have very little to do with bracket racing. But the TRACKS pay the bills week to week with bracket racing revenue. That is difficult for some newer track operators who don't come from grassroots to understand at first. Yes, bracket races and racers come with a decent quantity of headaches for operators, because there are so many of us.
They have to understand what many car dealers do: You gotta sell chevy's and Cadillacs. It's the entire package that makes the finances of a track work.

I also don't think this is accurate at all... at most of the tracks I race at or speak to the management about, it's NHRA events & big import or no prep races are the money makers race wise and if they have a concert or a tough mudder event they are even happier. Bracket races are often a low or no profit endeavor and the big SFG / Fling gigs are track rentals so the track just gets their flat fee. I think that's part of the disconnect with bracket racers & tracks - many think we are keeping the lights on at the track and they should cater to us when the reality is that we are often their least profitable and least favorite segment.
Think bout it -
Typical bracket race: 150 guys show up to race, no spectators, pay $80 to race. Don't buy a t-shirt, bring our own food to BBQ, complain if payout or track isn't good. If it rains, track makes $0 and we all use our rain check next week.

Import event: 200 guys show up to race, pay $50 to race, bring a carload of people,stands are packed @ $20.00 a head, 80% buy t-shirts, concession stands is busy all day & sells out of hamburgers & ice, no one complains about track conditions and they are happy with $500.00 and a trophy. If it rains, there is still the car show for the spectators and 1/2 of the racers never wind up using their rain check.

The way I understand it to work at my local track is, weekly program is a source of "cash flow", very little if any net to be seen.

The Monthly special events are THE source of profit making activities. The "heads-up" event brings in a number of spectators (who drink beer and buy hot dogs) which contribute to the profit margin. "No ET/Grudge" night events have ZERO pay-out format and bring in good car counts AND spectators. Those events are mainly all $$$$$ coming in and only basic fixed expenses going out.

Test N Tune evenings are profitable only if the car count is at a certain level. It's not always a net event.

Track rentals, if managed correctly, can be somewhat profitable as well.

Local tracks are working all angles to drive profitability. It's my observation that the weekly program is not the main source of their net...


Dan

I do agree though that "a significant, reliable portion of money" (for NHRA) comes from bracket racers...


Dan

I actually don't disagree. But read what I wrote.
Yes the large events tend to be the profit makers. But you have to own a track to hold these events at. So you have to have a way to keep the lights on to make it there. So while the bracket races may not have the margin that the large events have, they pay the bills so you have a facility to make money at a few times a year. Without that component of consistent lower margin revenue, the entire dynamic of track finances change.
It's interesting when we consider margins however in bracket races. It gives a slanted view when you have all the prize money in the equation. That money was never part of the gross at the end of the day anyhow. So the margins look lower than they ought to be when you consider holding the prize as part of the gross.

I got what Bucky is saying so this isn't a response necessarily to him. Our track loses money on our bracket program. The biggest money maker is the divisional event, Friday TNT, Midnight Drag program late Saturdays, and specialty events such as Mopar drags, Pro-Mod races etc....

A question I have that maybe someone can answer is that I have always heard if you want NHRA sanction you have to hold a bracket program. Anyone know if that truly is the case? Otherwise I don't see why they keep us at my local track. I'm sure glad they do though.

Curtis

quote:

A question I have that maybe someone can answer is that I have always heard if you want NHRA sanction you have to hold a bracket program. Anyone know if that truly is the case? Otherwise I don't see why they keep us at my local track. I'm sure glad they do though.

Curtis

I believe it was a requirement but they recently dropped it.

Different circumstances are true in different places. In my area, bracket racing is NOT a big mover for profit or even keeping the lights on. The primary driver is test and tune. To the point that test and tune can easily stand alone, and often does. We get very large crowds to come and watch test and tunes. Reason being is that the cost to come in and watch is much lower than most club cover charges. It's one big party and the whole d*mn town is there. I am quite sure many of these spectators have not got a clue as to what is going on, other than there are a WHOLE lot of other folks gathered there. The closest track to me offers a once or twice a month bracket race, run right alongside of the test and tune. Doing so costs the track money. He gets maybe a total of $400 in entry fees and never cuts his $1,000 purse. One big reason is that bracket racers run with the display boards lit up. The test and tune crowd insists on no time displayed. His spectators like to actually have something to see, once in awhile. Take care. Tom Worthington

Bracket racing at our track is also a money losing proposition.

quote:

Originally posted by Cashflow:
Bracket racing at our track is also a money losing proposition.

For the racers too! LOL.

quote:

Originally posted by CURTIS REED:


A question I have that maybe someone can answer is that I have always heard if you want NHRA sanction you have to hold a bracket program. Anyone know if that truly is the case? Otherwise I don't see why they keep us at my local track. I'm sure glad they do though.


Curtis

I don't think Charlotte ever had any bracket races. Bristol doesn't run it's own bracket program, they lease it out, but it is sanctioned and there has always been talk of it going away.
How is bracket race only program doing for the IHRA? They gave up on everything else.

I race two tracks regularly...I agree with Bucky...no, the tracks do not make big money on brackets...but...they do keep the lights on weekly from those races...both tracks make their real money on other events and not any NHRA or IHRA sanctioned events either...both tracks need no sanction body for the events they make the most money on...

quote:

Originally posted by fuzzy dice:
I race two tracks regularly...I agree with Bucky...no, the tracks do not make big money on brackets...but...they do keep the lights on weekly from those races...both tracks make their real money on other events and not any NHRA or IHRA sanctioned events either...both tracks need no sanction body for the events they make the most money on...

Comes back to the question do tracks gain anything by being sanctioned? Do they get a better deal on insurance to make it worth the sanction? I know one track owner that told me it wasn't worth it and is non sanctioned now.

quote:

Originally posted by Eman:
Comes back to the question do tracks gain anything by being sanctioned? Do they get a better deal on insurance to make it worth the sanction? I know one track owner that told me it wasn't worth it and is non sanctioned now.

It is a double edge sword. The track has several benefits including the *HRA insurance, but with that comes the requirements from both the sanctioning body and their insurance company.

Every part of the country is a bit different. Some tracks feel the trade off is not for them and others feel it is.

Here on the West Coast a large portion of the racers want to be part of a Bracket Finals program and the only show in town is NHRA.

"Comes back to the question do tracks gain anything by being sanctioned? Do they get a better deal on insurance to make it worth the sanction? I know one track owner that told me it wasn't worth it and is non sanctioned now."

Valid point...I am glad my tracks are sanctioned because they run the Summit Series events...I race the NHRA track for the money and not points and the IHRA track for the money, points and to go to the division finals...I prefer the IHRA division finals for any number of reasons...

[/QUOTE]

It is a double edge sword. The track has several benefits including the *HRA insurance, but with that comes the requirements from both the sanctioning body and their insurance company.

Every part of the country is a bit different. Some tracks feel the trade off is not for them and others feel it is.

Here on the West Coast a large portion of the racers want to be part of a Bracket Finals program and the only show in town is NHRA.[/QUOTE]


Is the xHRA insurance coverage that comes with membership (for the racer's benefit) worth it to a racer to race at a track that has a sanctioning body insurance policy in force? It's fact that these "written agreements" come with a number of safety related rules and certain other requirements. Most of these rules/regulations have been "written in the blood" of previous racer's misfortunes.

What's in the best interest of the racers? Stated rules that everyone is expected to comply with that are intended for everyone's benefit? Or, stated rules that are loosely followed and/or left up to an arbitrary enforcement decision made by some UN-official individual???


Dan

It's all pretty confusing. I've seen tracks sanctioned that don't meet today's safety standards but they are grandfathered in and the *HRA's don't want to lose member tracks. They turn a blind eye to keep the numbers up. No different then tracks turning a blind eye to safety requirements of the cars and racers.